"Helping banned players join server"

[semik]

Hello friends,

I've been asked to move the discussion here to get answers, I hope this is the correct section, if not I apologize. So, I will just reiterate my points and hope for answers.

I know I had a bit of a rough start in this server with you guys when I first started playing and I'd like to formally and officially apologize that - addressing this specifically to Knux and Dkill - it wasn't right from me to behave in such way towards you guys, it wasn't fair from me and I am deeply sorry. I think since then I've changed my behavior for the better, but I might be wrong, you be the judge of that. Now to the point of discussion

Today I've been kicked from the server for the reason "Helping banned players join server". I do admit I am aware of this player's repeated attempts to connect and play, as I saw members of the TM admin team ban him under various fake nicks a few times with the reason "plain", but I can assure you that I really don't play together with said player on the server (in a sense that I or him would tell each other to connect and play together, hang out on voice or whatever else you think). I know him from the gathers server, just like I know many other players from there who got banned here on TM...and I do respect your decision to ban them, it is after all your server and your choices. As for this specific player, he's an adult person with free will and I cannot influence his actions, if he decides to go around the ban and play anyway I think it's a bit unfair to punish me for it - specifically because I really have no knowledge of that and even if I had, I cannot influence it in any way. I play the game for myself, not for others. I really don't understand where you got the idea that we come here to play together, it's simply false. And I play the game for myself and myself only - I'm willing to take responsibility for my actions, but I really don't understand why I should be punished for something that someone else is doing.

Another point was raised by Knux about me wearing the #FREEPLAIN tag - the first day I put it on I was contacted ingame by TM admin lo$t and we had a discussion about it - from that dicussion I thought that wearing the tag is fine (to quote lo$t as to not mischaracterize what was said - "I did not say it is ok, but I said it is not against the rules, this is a difference"). But now it seems to me that one specific TM member Knux seems to be really focusing on the fact I wear the tag, so I would like to ask for you to settle the debate - is the tag or ok or not? I shall abide by the decision you come to, whatever it may be (in the past I've also stated multiple times, that if any TM member has a problem with me wearing the tag, they can come forward and I have no issue removing it)

Lastly, I've been told by another TM member a following sentence "if you keep trolling or beeing nuisance in any way in forum then you will be muted or kicked". I was really not at all aware of the fact that I was being a nuisance or trolling - except for my first few days on the server, which I once again apologize for. From what I can recollect, I was never really warned/kicked/talked to about my behavior in the server and I thought I was always behaving according to the rules. If this is not the case, I ask anyone of you in TM to please step forward - either here, ingame, or discord DMs, whatever you prefer, and if you feel like I've mistreated you or behaved badly, please tell me so, the last thing I would want to do is to cause anyone harm or make them feel uncomfortable - and also I selfishly, believe it or not, I don't want to be kicked/banned - I just want to be left alone to play the game in peace. My issue with this is also that - how can I know that I'm not behaving in line with the rules or how someone feels like I should behave when I'm being left in the dark - I have no issue changing my behavior if there's something wrong I'm doing, but so far I've never been warned/told anything and therefore I assumed everything is ok. Therefore it comes as a big shocker to me to be presumed to be "trolling and being a nuisance"

I hope we can resolve this issue peacefully, as I really like playing on the server, I've met and really like a lot of you guys and I hope our ET journey together can continue moving forward.

Now directly to Knux - I feel like this is more personal than anything about breaking rules/behaving badly etc. so please, as I already said in server - if there is any issue and you feel like you want to talk it out, my DMs in discord are open mate

 

If you made it here, thank you for your time and I hope you have a nice evening,

semik

Edited August 27, 2023 by semik

[ralvek]

tl;dr?

[Ctrz]

For me - tag is fine.

Not fone is starting discussions with other people in server over various admin descisions (mutes, kicks, warns etc). Queries can always be done respectfully and mostlikely answer would be given. Demanding an answer repeatedly becomes spam or troll to me. I have received multiple tips that you have initiated said conversations ingame and they have bexome arguing or confrontational. Doesnt matter if its you or some tm member beeing more blamed. My quoted response was directly to you and to all others who read topics in discord to consider the manner and tone how explanations are beeing asked. If TM member steps over the line then you should report them in like they are reporting in non-TM players crossing the line. We have enough experienced staff to go over all issues and scenarios and fix whatever needs to be fixed.

 

I dont take away your right to ask questions or your voice to express your dissaproval - those are both healthy options in good society. All I am asking is to not cross the line from beeing resppectful towards beeing demanding or trolly or nuisance.

 

Wheatear you cross the line or not is others to fully judge, I just give somewhat friendly headsup.

 

Thank you for moving this discussion here instead of discord where it will get either blown out of proportion or buried under next wall of text .

Edited August 28, 2023 by Ctrz
not gonna edit any possible typos out. deal with it :)

[semik]

18 minutes ago, Ctrz said:

For me - tag is fine.

Not fone is starting discussions with other people in server over various admin descisions (mutes, kicks, warns etc). Queries can always be done respectfully and mostlikely answer would be given. Demanding an answer repeatedly becomes spam or troll to me. I have received multiple tips that you have initiated said conversations ingame and they have bexome arguing or confrontational. Doesnt matter if its you or some tm member beeing more blamed. My quoted response was directly to you and to all others who read topics in discord to consider the manner and tone how explanations are beeing asked. If TM member steps over the line then you should report them in like they are reporting in non-TM players crossing the line. We have enough experienced staff to go over all issues and scenarios and fix whatever needs to be fixed.

 

I dont take away your right to ask questions or your voice to express your dissaproval - those are both healthy options in good society. All I am asking is to not cross the line from beeing resppectful towards beeing demanding or trolly or nuisance.

 

Wheatear you cross the line or not is others to fully judge, I just give somewhat friendly headsup.

 

Thank you for moving this discussion here instead of discord where it will get either blown out of proportion or buried under next wall of text .

First of all, thank you for your reaction. 

I'm sorry to say, but I really cannot recall any instances of "repeatedly" asking for something or spamming (ok I do admit I say "vote bridges guys" a bit too much at the end of the map sometimes, because I simply like the map, but I believe this is not what we are talking about here). I also never felt like my tone was confrontational or argumentative (except for those few first days on the server, which I already explained and apologized in my first post and I hope we can move forward from that, it's been over 2 months since then and I've changed my ways). That being said, seeing as you said "received multiple tips", the feeling probably wasn't mutual from at least some of the TM members and I can promise you that I will be more careful in the future regarding such topics, and now that I've been shown that the forum is the right place to solve these issues, I shall move the discussion here if any such issues should arise in the future instead of trying to resolve it in-game. The part that saddens me about it is that although you say there have been "multiple tips" given to you about this, none of those people actually approached me (either in a form of message/warn/ban). I think I'm a reasonable person, willing to play by the rules and if the issue was brought to my attention at the first instance someone felt that way, instead of letting it fester, I believe we wouldn't even be here having this discussion. Anyway, point taken, thank you.

[knuX]

Hi Semik

I think the issue firstly is that you came to the discord/server at the start with a point to prove. I don't know you other than after this person's ban you joined discord and played regularly. You was mostly interested in provoking a reaction from the start, with some of it aimed at me which was strange. It's not against the rules to wear a tag, I'm not bothered, but I'd say if you just wanted to play and get on with things you wouldn't choose it. It's not the problem, it just paints a bigger picture. Mocking in discord, commenting on admins in game, tag, making comments about this person is getting unbanned soon, etc. That isn't someone who "respects admin decisions" or only plays the game for themselves. Writing things like "I've heard this person has been unbanned early" or similar, when that person is avoiding ban and playing tells me that you know they are. If that's not true, then maybe you shouldn't make so many attempts to speak about a player who has already been banned if you really just want to play as you say

This person often tries to avoid ban and often joins when you're on. I did notice a few times that it seemed like you knew who it was, and it was only because of that that I knew who it was too. Considering that and the above it seems to me highly unlikely that you're unaware of it until I kick. If I'm wrong, sorry, but I'm only acting on what I've seen and I'm definitely not doing it without reason

If you think it's a personal thing, it's not. You've trolled to provoke a reaction and then when you get one, you act shocked. It was clear you had an issue with me/others from the start, despite us not knowing eachother, and I think because of that I didn't feel like I should give you the benefit of the doubt. I think the kick last night was only a little unfair because it seemed to come out of the blue. I apologise for it not because I think it was wrong, but because I know it can be frustrating when it happens that way. But your provoking from day one equally came out of the blue just because you see me as the reason your friend is banned, which isn't the case

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by knuX

[semik]

9 minutes ago, knuX said:

Hi Semik

I think the issue firstly is that you came to the discord/server at the start with a point to prove. I don't know you other than after this person's ban you joined discord and played regularly. You was mostly interested in provoking a reaction from the start, with some of it aimed at me which was strange. It's not against the rules to wear a tag, I'm not bothered, but I'd say if you just wanted to play and get on with things you wouldn't choose it. It's not the problem, it just paints a bigger picture. Mocking in discord, commenting on admins in game, tag, making comments about this person is getting unbanned soon, etc. That isn't someone who "respects admin decisions" or only plays the game for themselves. Writing things like "I've heard this person has been unbanned early" or similar, when that person is avoiding ban and playing tells me that you know they are. If that's not true, then maybe you shouldn't make so many attempts to speak about a player who has already been banned if you really just want to play as you say

This person often tries to avoid ban and often joins when you're on. I did notice a few times that it seemed like you knew who it was, and it was only because of that that I knew who it was too. Considering that and the above it seems to me highly unlikely that you're unaware of it until I kick. If I'm wrong, sorry, but I'm only acting on what I've seen and I'm definitely not doing it without reason

If you think it's a personal thing, it's not. You've trolled to provoke a reaction and then when you get one, you act shocked. It was clear you had an issue with me/others from the start, despite us not knowing eachother, and I think because of that I didn't feel like I should give you the benefit of the doubt. I think the kick last night was only a little unfair because it seemed to come out of the blue. I apologise for it not because I think it was wrong, but because I know it can be frustrating when it happens that way. But your provoking from day one equally came out of the blue just because you see me as the reason your friend is banned, which isn't the case

 

Hello Knux,

first of all, thank you for your response, I really appreciate it.

It seems to me that this is indeed still revolving around the way I acted when I first came here - I once again I'm going to reiterate - I was in the wrong, I was acting badly and it was unfair to both, you and Dkill, I was simply mad because my friend got banned and I saw the two of you as the part of the reason - simply put, I was in the wrong. And I apologize once again, to you and Dkill, unfortunately that's all I can do, I can't turn back time and take back what was done and said. I was hoping that you saw the change in my behavior for the better after yours and Dkill's intervention. Unfortunately from what I read here, I still have a feeling that you have a hard time letting it go and accepting that I've changed. As for the point about talking in chat about Plain, I think you might be partially right - I've never seen it as anything harmful in my point of view, it was always meant to be seen as a joke or banter, but now that you mention it in this specific way, I see your point and I will be mindful of it in the future. I would just be really happy if you guys came forward sooner when you felt like there was something wrong with my behavior, because I honestly thought there was no issue so far as I got no warnings/kicks etc until this point.

As for the other part - I genuinely have no idea when he's playing or not, and I am not in any way encouraging him to come play and avoid the ban, nor do I have any knowledge of how he does it. Therefore I was really shocked when I saw the kick reason being "Helping banned players join server" - especially at that very moment. I was simply playing the game, minding my own business and then I got kicked for a reason that I knew is not true. I never helped any banned player to join the server, nor do I have any idea how to do it. Also to quote from your discord post that I'm "playing with banned players"- that is just another mischaracterization - the only place I play with plain is the gathers server (knowingly that is, I can't influence if he decides to join the TM server and play on my team without my knowledge, I hope you understand that). Since plain's ban I have never played with him together on TM in the way you are trying to imply. Just because I am friends with him doesn't mean I know about every single thing he does - I am friends with the entire gathers community and a lot of players in TM too, it's not in my power to know/control all their actions.

I don't know why, but I'm getting impression that you think that I'm somehow out there to get you all, troll you and make your life miserable, which is simply not true. I'm just trying to play the game and have fun, and maybe sometimes things get out of the hand in the chat - I really wouldn't know, cause as I already said, according to me I didn't really mean anything as a troll or an attack on you or anyone else - I would really appreciate it if you guys let me know when something like that happens (msg/warn/kick is all fine), because that's the only way for me to know. My definition of trolling might be vastly different - what I see as a harmless banter/joke, you might view as trolling/attack, but I cannot know because I am not a mindreader

[knuX]

I don't see your behaviour as an attack or harmful at all, I just see it for what it is and that's to provoke a little. I agree you can't control someone else's decisions but I don't believe you're not aware and that's just based on what I've read and seen. If you write things like "I heard he's got unbanned early" or something in chat, and then he's playing on your team on the server, it raises suspicion as I said and it's not the only example

I'm definitely not acting in some way because of how you first was, it's not that deep for me lol but you wanted to keep mentioning the ban and provoking here and there and it gets a reaction eventually

But anyway, we've got an understanding both ways now, onwards

 

[Stumpel]

Any logs?