Knux, admin abuse - kicked without any logical reason

[Dundee]

Hello TM!

Story: Today a dear admin of yours called Knux, randomly kicked me for an absurd reason. "MOVE WHEN U SPAWN" (image attached).

After waiting for 900 seconds he said that "one is supposed to run out using shift" "rush out of the spawn".

Now my question is, how on earth am I breaking a rule by not being among the first ones to run out, right away? Perhaps sometimes I spawn behind others and rather let them run out first, or I might want to choose a secondary path out (depending on the map). I'm not intentionally blocking any pathways, not exactly standing in the way anywhere in a door frame or something. Yes perhaps one time I was afk for 5 seconds changing my sensitivity. Also when the server is really full the pathways are too narrow to "run all at once"

I have to say that this is the most ridiculous reason to kick somebody. I understand Knux is a professional aimer with a very high SR rating and my skill is entirely made of jaymod/etpub, and I'm not that good at knowing some of these maps nor have such a good competitive mindset. This after all is a public server, we are all here to have fun! I understand some people are dead serious and the competitive aspect is good but you can't expect everybody to be flawless or something...

Technically if you kick for such a reason, you might as well kick every 3rd or 4-5th player in the game.

Good examples: special delivery, you don't even want to run out first, maybe there is a guy behind you, in the spawn? There are many maps where you should look behind you, a covert or medic could be hiding!

My names in the game Kangaroo Dundee, been playing here 3-5x a week for a year or so. I never break any rules at all and usually play after mid day, between 1-4pm, Perhaps I'm just a little bad in the legacy mod due to the small hitboxes, not used to them. I don't have any demos but I started recording each and every match after the incident, just in case the man has a bad mood again. Overly aggressive administrative behavior.

Edited July 9 by Dundee
Fix2

[Danimal]

Not running out of spawn and blocking others is one of the most frustrating things in ET for other players. It can also result in multiple players dying when leaving spawn as their short window of invulnerability has been lost as they try to pass through you. It's a shame that we are not allowed to knife you out of the way as sometimes peeps can get very blocked in...

[Dundee]

Yes I can understand but I'm not blocking anybody anywhere. Not causing any problems. I also hate it when somebody stands in the way in important areas.

Edited July 9 by Dundee
1

[knuX]

I messaged you the last time I played with you saying please move when you spawn. You told me maybe it's to do with the client you're on (?) because you move as soon as you spawn every time, but that's not what I see

Today you're doing the same thing. The server was quiet, 8v8, yet every spawn you're stood still for 3 seconds and blocking. Sometimes even turning around to block another second. On maps like frostbite, delivery it's pointless playing obj (which I try to do) if we can't get out of spawn. Like Danimal says, you not only lose your spawn shield but you also can't stop the obj

This isn't to do with skill either, I'm not a great aimer but when I play I try obj. There's no point spending 10 minutes defending docs if the whole map is lost in 3-4 seconds because you're standing afk

 

 

[Kevlar]

1 hour ago, knuX said:

I'm not a great aimer

+1 

[Dundee]

I think I said something about leaving the sprint for fights, although I realized that I still do use up the entire sprint bar while running out. I was talking about something more random one time, the hitbox size of legacy mod.

Yes I do try to move out as fast as possible, of course, It makes no sense to stay in the spawn for too long. Perhaps you are right, have to change something. I still cant quite understand, I have been here on TM, for at least 2 years, and in the ET for a very long time. Always done it the same way and you are the first one to say that something is awfully wrong with my gameplay. I remember you from the days when you were not a member here.

Then again sometimes we have 15+15 in very small maps (library final axis spawn), and it can be a struggle. In some of the maps I might indeed stay for a second, trying to figure out where to go, oasi, rommel_final. I want to see where the team goes.  (Rommel_final) the last time I saw this map was maybe 18 years ago. Lag a little behind and follow the team. If I am the in the furthest position and not standing in the way, it should be fine?

What I meant is that Knux = skilled, better game awareness, knowing the tactical side, strategy, playing in a very serious mode, but there are always people lagging behind somewhere, being a normal thing in every game. You can't expect them all to be so fast and perfect, unless you are doing scrims. It is a public server after all. I have been trying to introduce people to the game, (keep ET alive!) pointing them towards TM, I have a feeling you will kick them all for something 🙃.

 

 

Edited July 10 by Dundee
1

[knuX]

"You can't expect them all to be so fast and perfect"

There's no expectation here more than "move when you spawn". If spawn after spawn you appear AFK for a few seconds that's going to piss people off. You're trying really hard here to make it look like I've kicked you for nothing which is suspicious

You were moved to spec the first time because you literally didn't move for 4-5 seconds so I assumed afk

Then did it again so I DM'd you telling you to please move when you spawn because you're blocking everyone

Then the next time I played with you you did the same thing, every single spawn, so I kicked you

"we are all here to have fun"

We are, which is why after a dozen times of you doing it I kicked you. No idea why you're mentioning random maps. The three maps I played with you were frost, delivery and supply. I genuinely thought you were going AFK the first few times, but apparently it's you thinking about your "best route out of spawn" 🫠

[crumblycake]

yes, I can confirm all of this. I was there when dundee got kicked. He didn't anything wrong and was not blocking spawn intentionally or unintentionally. There was no reason to kick him. I have played with him for past few years together on TM and FA servers and I can confirm that he is not a spammer, troll or hacker. He is a legit player! Been playing WOLFEET sine 2003. Admin, please do better!

[Dundee]

No I just defend the point of view that there is no breach of rules. I want to understand where is the extraordinary behavior when there is nothing that odd worth of being kicked for.

Yes I was afk a few times too, changed the settings a little on the go. Cannot see anything weird about it though.

You kicked me in the map called library. The other maps that I mentioned, were after I rejoined anyway. We probably played another 5 or 6 afterwards.

Edited July 10 by Dundee
1

[knuX]

52 minutes ago, crumblycake said:

yes, I can confirm all of this. I was there when dundee got kicked. He didn't anything wrong and was not blocking spawn intentionally or unintentionally. There was no reason to kick him. I have played with him for past few years together on TM and FA servers and I can confirm that he is not a spammer, troll or hacker. He is a legit player! Been playing WOLFEET sine 2003. Admin, please do better!

Good job that he's not being accused of spamming, trolling or hacking then

Imagine only being asked to not be afk every time you spawn and having a problem with that

[crumblycake]

Yeah, there is a timer for people that are afk and will automatically be moved to specs after the timer runs out. So, yes, there was no logical reason to kick dundee. If he was afk he would've been moved to specs anyway. It was pointless to kick him. 

[knuX]

12 minutes ago, crumblycake said:

Yeah, there is a timer for people that are afk and will automatically be moved to specs after the timer runs out. So, yes, there was no logical reason to kick dundee. If he was afk he would've been moved to specs anyway. It was pointless to kick him. 

The timer is 30 seconds and it works for people who do something in-between rounds, it's not there so people can go afk and block spawns

[Stumpel]

Just as info what I have seen players standing on spawn after spawning doing things like stand still not movin or movin little crosshair and not gaming.. There are many others too, I ask should we kick those too, if yes, there will bigger amount of players under getting !kick then.. Because its a fact that many players should just put into spec, but question !kick is something else.. That why took this way to take a part to this discussion. Because !kick'in players beeing afk makes them maybe more anger than !put them into spec with understandable reason..

 

Just crazy wondering and way to continue topic discussion..

[Flo]

ET is an objective-based game and most of the usual maps voted/played on our servers are not designed for the amount of players we generaly host. Hence situation where it can be iritating to lose obj and maps if players are afk 2-3sec at each respawn and blocking team. Knux plays for objective and is willing to push for it. If he's restrained from this and after many warnings/requests to move up he is not heard, then kick sounds the only alternative to unlock the situation and be able to play properly the obj.

More generally speaking, please listen when a TM member asks you something. We are not a public service and we owe nothing to anyone. We are willing to play the game, not being teamkilled or spawnkilled or trolled or blocked by afks or whatever.

[Morton Salt]

Sometmes i want to stab, shoot and blew up those sloths slowly leaving and blocking the spawn, but... kicking player for being a sloth? Lul

23 minutes ago, Flo said:

ET is an objective-based game and most of the usual maps voted/played on our servers are not designed for the amount of players we generaly host. Hence situation where it can be iritating to lose obj and maps if players are afk 2-3sec at each respawn and blocking team. Knux plays for objective and is willing to push for it. If he's restrained from this and after many warnings/requests to move up he is not heard, then kick sounds the only alternative to unlock the situation and be able to play properly the obj.

More generally speaking, please listen when a TM member asks you something. We are not a public service and we owe nothing to anyone. We are willing to play the game, not being teamkilled or spawnkilled or trolled or blocked by afks or whatever.

You would need to kick half of the server if that is the case...

[Dundee]

The map selection is really good. Yes, it seems that some maps, areas (spawns) are not designed for 20+/- players.  I never thought about the 1-2 sec afk guys as being so problematic as it seems to be something that is inevitable. There is always somebody afk/standing still, every match. I just run past them and exit the spawn.
Obviously the valuable seconds can lead to a defeat but what can you do? I think it is impossible to achieve "perfect clockwork" effect in a big public server. Nevertheless you should always do your best and not annoy others.

There will always be people who are slow, sloths, some sending PM's or typing something in the public chat, leading to 1-2-3 seconds afk. For instance, there are also old people playing this game who can be very slow. In their late 60's, people who started playing ET in their 40's 50's.

There are also newcomers in the game who don't have a clue at all, confused about everything, and doing something weird. Maybe some are looking into the limbo menu, examining the command map or whatever information is in there, being afk a little. Some are not even using shift to run.

There can be moments when you change your class, spawn point in the limbo menu, then again you are afk for a few seconds, situational moments.

A server like this is a very diverse environment. Made of players who are very serious about the objective, doing their best, to those who just play for stats, and some who are slow, weird.

 

 

Edited July 11 by Dundee
1

[knuX]

@Dundee

I'm aware of all that. Every spawn there is someone afk doing something.

The difference was, you seemed AFK every single spawn. Because unlike everyone else moving to get out, you just stand still. It wasn't once or a couple of times, it was every map I played with you on different days. And after moving you to spec, after DM'ing you asking to move, you were still doing it every time

[crumblycake]

I think the solution to the "blocking spawn" nonsense is to disable collision. Day of Defeat source does it and they never have an issue of congested spawn areas. 

 

Here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/240/discussions/0/35221584441279257/

"There is a plugin that will disabe the team collisions. It is named as "No Block". 

Many such cases: "[CS:S] Don't Collide with Teammates only"

https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=210925

 

Edited July 11 by crumblycake

[Dundee]

Knux, I will try not to be afk at all anymore. Maybe only when sending a PM, even then I will make sure to be elsewhere, not in the spawn.👍

This is actually a good discussion, I got an idea...

This anti-collision thing, I know that this exists in ETJump, can just run through everybody and not collide.

I wonder has this ever been implemented into a non trickjump mod? Probably not? In theory it sounds interesting, I wonder how could it affect the gameplay. Fights could be funny, bunch of guys running through each other. The mega axis medic, 8 guys standing in the same place and shooting, 🤣 1 panzer shot and all gone.

I suppose it could be added to ET in a way that the spawn areas define as special areas, where people can run through each other. This sounds like an awful amount of work since the maps are all different.

Now there is a better idea! The solution could be to do something based on the spawn shield - you can't collide for 10 seconds. I know the shield does not last that long but you could make anti-collision for 10s. Also make it so that those who have not moved after spawning, have anti-collision on and once they start moving they get some X more seconds. This sounds like a perfect solution.

 

Edited July 13 by Dundee

[Sebast1an]

24 minutes ago, Dundee said:

Knux, I will try not to be afk at all anymore, not even for a few seconds. Maybe only when sending a PM, even then I will make sure to be elsewhere, not in the spawn.👍

This is actually a good discussion, I got an idea...

This anti-collision thing, I know that this exists in ETJump, can just run through everybody and not collide.

I wonder has this ever been implemented into a non trickjump mod? Probably not? In theory it sounds interesting, I wonder how could it affect the gameplay. Fights could be funny, bunch of guys running through each other. The mega axis medic, 8 guys standing in the same place and shooting, 🤣 1 panzer shot and all gone.

I suppose it could be added to ET in a way that the spawn areas define as special areas, where people can run through each other. This sounds like an awful amount of work since the maps are all different.

Now there is a better idea! The solution could be to do something based on the spawn shield - you can't collide for 10 seconds. I know the shield does not last that long but you could make anti-collision for 10s. Also make it so that those who have not moved after spawning, have anti-collision on and once they start moving they get some X more seconds. This sounds like a perfect solution.

 

I feel like you are focusing on the problem of blocking exits only. Granted, if people can't collide then this would solve that quite easily.

But it solves a problem that normally shouldn't even be an issue. In return it creates a bunch of problems that affect gameplay - specifically any enemy activity near spawns. It would become a mess as a whole.

Certainly nothing of the kind should be implemented any further than spawn area in any case.