Spawnkill rules

[lazy]

Hola together,

as you might know, personally i dont mind spawnkilling. But i totally understand that you set up some rules to prevent that in a 24vs24 match. My issue with the spawnkill rules like it is today is, that you can actually abuse that.

At some maps, the Objective is very close to the axis spawn. That leads to people camping inside the spawn to protect the Obj. Nothing wrong with that. But what is wrong is, that you can't break that defense with heavy weapons. Lets take a look at Missile second stage for example. The Axis MG can simply camp in spawn without the risk of getting panzered or rifled. You have to facecheck that mg with an smg to kill it.
Missile 3rd stage is not better, you cant nade the top. Caen 2nd stage is another example. If allies has at 2nd stage somewhat mapcontroll, ppl camp up with mg and snipers. you cant arty them out.

Correct me if Iam wrong. but the whole point of not allowing spawnkill is to protect people to not get insta killed after spawning. But there is no reason to protect them like 8 seconds after theire spawn, is it?

I dont really know if that is possible, but the solution that came to my mind is, that the auto-spawn-protection-system (auto-warn/kick for sk) only works like for the first 8 seconds each spawn. After that you will not get a warn/kick for using heavy weapons in a restricted area.

That would have another positive effect: Players will be forced to finally pay somewhat attention to the spawntime

[Stumpel]

That is good ask from @Flo, because he has maded those scripted areas.. I think system is very good.. 

[Sebast1an]

I haven't played in a while so the rules may have changed but on both instances on Missile you mentioned, you should be allowed to use heavy weapons.

2nd stage: it is not a permanent spawn for axis so everything except mortar is fair game.

3rd stage: there are multiple spawnexits so you are allowed to use heavy weapons on the exit. Mortar is ofc not allowed.

This is how I remember it. Please correct if I'm mistaken.

[lost]

18 minutes ago, Sebast1an said:

I haven't played in a while so the rules may have changed but on both instances on Missile you mentioned, you should be allowed to use heavy weapons.

2nd stage: it is not a permanent spawn for axis so everything except mortar is fair game.

3rd stage: there are multiple spawnexits so you are allowed to use heavy weapons on the exit. Mortar is ofc not allowed.

This is how I remember it. Please correct if I'm mistaken.

Thats true and it should be working like that.

 

53 minutes ago, lazy said:

Hola together,

as you might know, personally i dont mind spawnkilling. But i totally understand that you set up some rules to prevent that in a 24vs24 match. My issue with the spawnkill rules like it is today is, that you can actually abuse that.

At some maps, the Objective is very close to the axis spawn. That leads to people camping inside the spawn to protect the Obj. Nothing wrong with that. But what is wrong is, that you can't break that defense with heavy weapons. Lets take a look at Missile second stage for example. The Axis MG can simply camp in spawn without the risk of getting panzered or rifled. You have to facecheck that mg with an smg to kill it.
Missile 3rd stage is not better, you cant nade the top. Caen 2nd stage is another example. If allies has at 2nd stage somewhat mapcontroll, ppl camp up with mg and snipers. you cant arty them out.

Correct me if Iam wrong. but the whole point of not allowing spawnkill is to protect people to not get insta killed after spawning. But there is no reason to protect them like 8 seconds after theire spawn, is it?

I dont really know if that is possible, but the solution that came to my mind is, that the auto-spawn-protection-system (auto-warn/kick for sk) only works like for the first 8 seconds each spawn. After that you will not get a warn/kick for using heavy weapons in a restricted area.

That would have another positive effect: Players will be forced to finally pay somewhat attention to the spawntime

Personally I'm against such solution. In our servers SK is not allowed and script is the solution to force people to play with this specific rule and changing sk script will cause back to the situation before it was implemented. So no, I our case sk script is not only to prevent people getting killed after spawn, we are not allowing any sk on the servers, of course there are different rules for fixed spawns and capturable spawns etc

Edited March 4 by lost

[lost]

Lazy about camping with mg in spawn, it should be impossible, because we have another script which is not allowing to camp with mortar and mg inside the sk area, maybe something is wrong with the area, we will check that (I mean on missle map)

[lazy]

4 hours ago, Sebast1an said:

I haven't played in a while so the rules may have changed but on both instances on Missile you mentioned, you should be allowed to use heavy weapons.

2nd stage: it is not a permanent spawn for axis so everything except mortar is fair game.

3rd stage: there are multiple spawnexits so you are allowed to use heavy weapons on the exit. Mortar is ofc not allowed.

This is how I remember it. Please correct if I'm mistaken.

I came to that conclusion since those areas are marked  yellow at the spawnkill area thread. And due to the legend yellow means heavy weapons are forbidden. And im sure i got an auto warn for nading missile 3rd stage up.

But it doesnt really matter, since i used it only as an example. the whole point i was trying to make is, that i can't see any reason for a protection of the spawn area for the whole spawn cycle. On many maps, where the spawn of the defending team is somewhat close to the Objective, you want to be able to strike/nade/panzer the defenders out.

But to be 100% clear: i dont want to criticise the spawnkill areas or the auto system. To be honest, i always prefer SK just to be allowed. But if servers disallow SK, the TM solution is the best working system i've ever played on.

[lazy]

4 hours ago, lost said:

Thats true and it should be working like that.

 

Personally I'm against such solution. In our servers SK is not allowed and script is the solution to force people to play with this specific rule and changing sk script will cause back to the situation before it was implemented. So no, I our case sk script is not only to prevent people getting killed after spawn, we are not allowing any sk on the servers, of course there are different rules for fixed spawns and capturable spawns etc

Ah okay. I obviously see it differently, but you can't please everyone i guess

 

3 hours ago, lost said:

Lazy about camping with mg in spawn, it should be impossible, because we have another script which is not allowing to camp with mortar and mg inside the sk area, maybe something is wrong with the area, we will check that (I mean on missle map)

Those thoughts were on my mind for quite a while, i just couldnt never be arsed to open a thread, so i might not be up to date on this one. Tbh i dont remember to have seen that recently.

But if you can't camp with the MG inside spawn anymore, there is another issue. Because sometimes thats exactly where you want your MG to be. To stick with the missile example: At second stage the MG just has to be inside axis spawn and taking care of the allies at top.

I didnt want to criticise the ppl camping in spawn for doing so, i just want a way to counter their play properly

[StiffWrists]

It's annoying for sure, some important paths can be completely locked down because of heavies in spawn. Some map designs and the short spawn times really don't help. So far, the most effective workaround is the use of smoke and better attack coordination (rare on pub servers).

If only the game had smoke options for rifle grenades or mortar.

[RosenCruz]

Defending team can not use heavy in spawn either, not anymore. For example, Axis second spawn was great for MG to lie on his belly and kill any allied coming close to bringing power generator. That is no more. Heavy can not be used in spawn also for the defending team. 

[lazy]

1 hour ago, RosenCruz said:

Defending team can not use heavy in spawn either, not anymore. For example, Axis second spawn was great for MG to lie on his belly and kill any allied coming close to bringing power generator. That is no more. Heavy can not be used in spawn also for the defending team. 

Well like i said above, that is ofc a part of a solution but it comes with a disadvantage aswell, since sometimes, inside spawn, is the perfect mg spot.

But its not only about axis heavy classes. Lets take a look at frostbite for example. If you wanna push through the upper spawn towards objective, it would be really effective to just nade the ppl holding there. As an Axis player u have a pretty easy life there without the fear of getting naded or panzered. you just sit there and pre aim that door. If there is like 3 axis holding upper spawn, there is no way to kill them fast enough to push through towards the objectiv afterwards by just using smgs. You might kill all of them, but it takes time, and thx to the short spawntimes, axis will just spawn in your back before you get to the object. So preventing spam kills (nade/rg/pf) on upper axis spawn actually makes it useless to even go for that push. Atleast if axis is actually trying to hold upper spawn and the teams are somewhat even.

Another example is bremen here again. If you wanna push through spawn, you want to just airstrike that area before you push to actually create an opening for that push.

Lost said it already above: You dont allow SK on anytime of the spawncycle, just not a certain amount of seconds (8 for example) after spawn.  I just dont really understand why