Spawnkill fix

[|Warden]

Hello Guys,

Some of you mentioned that spawnkilling should be "disabled" on some maps. I said, I can simply edit the sensitive parts of the maps in a few minutes. Maybe spawnkilling is not a very-very common problem, but in my personal opinion preventing the spawnpoints could save us from warnings and using commands. I had to warn 2 players today, but they stoped spawnkilling. The question is: do we really need these warnings or we can let it go and enjoy the game? 

 

The following pictures (in connection with the videos on Vimeo sk_fix1_fixed//: sk_fix2_fixed) will show you 2 new extensions. These new parts are effective against: spawnkilling (and off course walljumping). I already know some spawnkill sensitive maps on TM servers, but I ask (especially admins and FTP owners): Would you like to take part in this "action" and suggest map names with locations? If not, then you can just leave this topic forever,

 

If yes, then you will get the edited maps. The difference between the edited and the original one is pretty small: it won't affect the downloading and it won't destroy the clean gameplay.

Post here your ideas and/or decision about the topic. 

 

Take care and see you in game

Edited April 3, 2020 by |Warden
Video link didn't work: Sorry for the inconvience.

[Ctrz]

Im sure our leading crew will take a look into it  . But thats a nice way to solve some issues.

[Charlie]

The Vimeo links don't go anywhere.

We did used to have glass roofs on certain maps (Oasis springs to mind) and it may very well be something we want to include again. I'm honestly not sure if we have any on the maps right now. We do have glass walls on some maps though. The second version where it pushes said players away sounds too intrusive on the gameplay in my opinion, but that's without seeing it or testing it. It would have to be on something very specific and not just the general spawn area on goldrush for example, I think.

I'll see what the admins say and we'll get back to you on it all. Personally, I'm impressed by it all  

[|Warden]

29 minutes ago, Charlie said:

The Vimeo links don't go anywhere.

We did used to have glass roofs on certain maps (Oasis springs to mind) and it may very well be something we want to include again. I'm honestly not sure if we have any on the maps right now. We do have glass walls on some maps though. The second version where it pushes said players away sounds too intrusive on the gameplay in my opinion, but that's without seeing it or testing it. It would have to be on something very specific and not just the general spawn area on goldrush for example, I think.

I'll see what the admins say and we'll get back to you on it all. Personally, I'm impressed by it all  

Well, the second trigger (with push+print) can be edited. If you think a simple message would force a player to leave the spawn, I would disconnect and remove the push target. If you watch the first video you can see that the target push pushed me further, than my original position, because the value of pushing speed is 1000 (very strong!). I can set it to 100-200 and players wouldn't fly around like a headless chicken... The decision is up to you  

About locations... It can be difficult to decide the place of these brushes, but my recommendation is this:

- defending team: the last spawnpoint executed during the game

- attacker team: the first spawnpoint executed during startup

- exceptions: secondary spawnpoint(s), CP and flag(s)

If you would like to test these things just let me know and I will make a test map for you, that you can try on your localhost. Or you can test it after entering /devmap [mapname] in console. It would be much easier for you to pick the best value of pushing speed and other special settings. I could build this test map in 5-10 minutes for you.

[Ctrz]

14 hours ago, Charlie said:

The Vimeo links don't go anywhere.

We did used to have glass roofs on certain maps (Oasis springs to mind) and it may very well be something we want to include again. I'm honestly not sure if we have any on the maps right now. We do have glass walls on some maps though. The second version where it pushes said players away sounds too intrusive on the gameplay in my opinion, but that's without seeing it or testing it. It would have to be on something very specific and not just the general spawn area on goldrush for example, I think.

I'll see what the admins say and we'll get back to you on it all. Personally, I'm impressed by it all  

Well some suggestions from top of my head:

Supply - allied 2nd spawn upper exit - I would put roof that area because until command post, its the only way out for allied.

Goldrush - axis 2nd spawn and the zone behind tank (so no mortar could hit there)

Bremen - axis 2nd spawnhouse area

Pirates - axis 2nd spawn upper area door/ledge against allied mortar

Oasis - axis 2nd spawn

These are some suggestions.
 

@|Warden - if I understand correctly - glass roof also denies someone in there shooting out - correct? For example if we glassroof the axis 2nd spawn in goldrush then mortar cannot sit in spawn and shoot out?

[|Warden]

24 minutes ago, Ctrz said:

Well some suggestions from top of my head:

Supply - allied 2nd spawn upper exit - I would put roof that area because until command post, its the only way out for allied.

Goldrush - axis 2nd spawn and the zone behind tank (so no mortar could hit there)

Bremen - axis 2nd spawnhouse area

Pirates - axis 2nd spawn upper area door/ledge against allied mortar

Oasis - axis 2nd spawn

These are some suggestions.
 

@|Warden - if I understand correctly - glass roof also denies someone in there shooting out - correct? For example if we glassroof the axis 2nd spawn in goldrush then mortar cannot sit in spawn and shoot out?

Okay @Ctrz, I will edit and upload these maps. It will be available for everybody. Admins can use these files if they want.

Shooting through the glass roof is impossible, even you are under the protected area...+1 disadvantage. However, I can "fix" this problem in two easy steps:

-  Editing the command map (the map that you can expand with G button, or you can check it in limbo menu or compass) is pretty easy. Players would be able to see the borders of the glass roof and protected spawn area. 

- I can cut and mark some small spots in the glass roof, so axis and allies would be able to shoot through the brush. You may ask: what about the protection in this case... well I can simply move the spawners into the protected area. OR: there is another type of glass roofs, wich blocks every shot, but players are able to move, even they are in the middle of this brush. So spawners would be placed in the middle of a giant glass cube.

[Svepa]

To answer one of your questions, we do need the warnings

[Ctrz]

@Warden - I just ask to have more understanding what can and cannot be done. You dont have to make maps to show me as Im not the one who decides. But its very handy to have some knowledge, what can and cannot be done/edited.    I know we have had some talks about some maps where people cross the line over what rules allowes to do and would be just much easier and consistent if we have problem fixed or prevented instead of punishing afterwards. 

[|Warden]

2 hours ago, Svepa said:

To answer one of your questions, we do need the warnings

Yes of course. But I am sure you would choose the easier way if it is  possible

[Jessica]

This glass ceiling only prevents the Spwn Killing with Mortar.

So you can all still keep warning for granades and panza, but as Joseph Juran discovered with his Pareto Pniciple, Mortar would solve ths 80% of the problems  

[|Warden]

Warning depends on the situation. I just wanted to say that preventing is always a better way

Now look at the pics and feel free to share your opinions/questions/suggestions about them. The map details, marked with "???" are optional.

@Ctrz, ET and the compatible map editor softwares are 17 years old. If you started a new hobby -like map editing- you would surely realize that everything is possible, when it comes to map building

[Ctrz]

These are really nice. Would be nice to have more time, then could pick up more hobbies like this.  

[Bystry]

Nice effort m8, however, this fix (glass roofs for anti-sk) is perfectly possible to do with a simple map script (mapscripts/mapname.script). An example:

create
        {
            scriptName "spawnroof1"
            classname "func_fakebrush"
            origin "2757 -759 100"
            contents 1  // SOLID
            mins "-360 -375 -88"
            maxs "360 375 88"
        }

This one is for invisible glass roof on goldrush. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Bystry

[|Warden]

8 minutes ago, Bystry said:

Nice effort m8, however, this fix (glass roofs for anti-sk) is perfectly possible to do with a simple map script (mapscripts/mapname.script). An example:

create
        {
            scriptName "spawnroof1"
            classname "func_fakebrush"
            origin "2757 -759 100"
            contents 1  // SOLID
            mins "-360 -375 -88"
            maxs "360 375 88"
        }

This one is for invisible glass roof on goldrush. 

Yes indeed. This is the other "5 minutes solution" for this problem. Since I am mapmaker I prefer map editing, because I find this way easier, than writing additional scripts (I mean non prefab and obj scripts). We used to add visible buildings (where player spawners can be placed) and it was really effective against sk. This solution is pretty insane if you grab your keyboard to start scripting

If you would like to have partial glass roof on some spawn areas (because defending players would like to set mortar or call support fire after respawn) you need to place the spawners into the protected area and mark the borders of the glass roof, wich requires more lines in script file.

[Ctrz]

5 hours ago, Bystry said:

Nice effort m8, however, this fix (glass roofs for anti-sk) is perfectly possible to do with a simple map script (mapscripts/mapname.script). An example:

create
        {
            scriptName "spawnroof1"
            classname "func_fakebrush"
            origin "2757 -759 100"
            contents 1  // SOLID
            mins "-360 -375 -88"
            maxs "360 375 88"
        }

This one is for invisible glass roof on goldrush. 

How come we dont have it on maps yet? @Charlie

[Bystry]

I just uploaded this today on ETL2

[Charlie]

1 hour ago, Ctrz said:

How come we dont have it on maps yet? @Charlie

I don't think admins knew how until 6 hours ago.

[Jessica]

1 hour ago, Bystry said:

I just uploaded this today on ETL2

Then, despite the fact that there can only be 1 soldier, I will come to ETL2 more often

[Ctrz]

3 hours ago, Charlie said:

I don't think admins knew how until 6 hours ago.

Okay  Bystry just sounded like its an ancient knowledge  

[Svepa]

Benefit of the glass roof etc is that mortars won’t be able to hide in spawns.

I do think if we do it, we need to announce on the actual server periodically, just so everyone is aware

[Ctrz]

Yes, for sure. Like we announce in Caen that the gate can after 1 dyna explosion be blown up by satchel.