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Medic nerfs


nosekbk
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Original message: https://discordapp.com/channels/444086039846322192/708256482315075604/753221008617635851

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Hey awesome TM folks :)

First of all, thanks for keeping the server alive ❤️ love it! I've got a suggestion with a huge hope to (re)consider it.

As mentioned in the #etlegacy-campaign in this (https://discordapp.com/channels/444086039846322192/708257015633412227/753216196249124876) convo one thing that is really killing the fun in the server is the lack of limitation of medics per map. We already limit fieldops to 2 which is great or else we'd have an artyfest. Unfortunately while fieldops are already limited with the number of airstrikes and firestrikes anyway, medics have unlimited number of revivals, self-healing, and medpacks. Any map could be done with one engineer and the rest could play medics just to heal the engineer and each other.
My proposal has two variants:

1. Limit the number of medics per server to 4 and unlock fieldops to 4 as well. This will require people to play other roles without giving the clear advantages of being a medic. It'll also make the game more dynamic and flowing, and less "rapid" as it might be. I've seen multiple times a 4med squad healing engineer building a bridge on fueldump with another 2 medics getting through the footbridge and keeping axis on the spawn for that time. As a cvops with k43/garand it already requires 2 clear HS or HS + 2-3 body shots (depending on the healing tick for the medic) to kill one. Get 8-10 of them on the map and it's pointless to even shoot one...

2. The other idea might be tricky considering I remember this used to be on one of the mods, but maybe it's something that's doable. Medics could have a limited number of revival needles (2 initially, 4 at max level) that could be resupplied with fieldops ammoboxes. This could shorten the sustainability of medics on the field that are currently the main pushing force honestly. I know we already limit medics with the lack of adrenaline as that would be an overkill, but with a limitation of medics to 2 or 4 we could bring that one back.

We limit soldiers panzer/bazooka to one per team. We limit fieldops to 2 per team. We should limit medics and give other roles more meaning.

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32 minutes ago, nosekbk said:

Original message: https://discordapp.com/channels/444086039846322192/708256482315075604/753221008617635851

--------

Hey awesome TM folks :)

First of all, thanks for keeping the server alive ❤️ love it! I've got a suggestion with a huge hope to (re)consider it.

As mentioned in the #etlegacy-campaign in this (https://discordapp.com/channels/444086039846322192/708257015633412227/753216196249124876) convo one thing that is really killing the fun in the server is the lack of limitation of medics per map. We already limit fieldops to 2 which is great or else we'd have an artyfest. Unfortunately while fieldops are already limited with the number of airstrikes and firestrikes anyway, medics have unlimited number of revivals, self-healing, and medpacks. Any map could be done with one engineer and the rest could play medics just to heal the engineer and each other.
My proposal has two variants:

1. Limit the number of medics per server to 4 and unlock fieldops to 4 as well. This will require people to play other roles without giving the clear advantages of being a medic. It'll also make the game more dynamic and flowing, and less "rapid" as it might be. I've seen multiple times a 4med squad healing engineer building a bridge on fueldump with another 2 medics getting through the footbridge and keeping axis on the spawn for that time. As a cvops with k43/garand it already requires 2 clear HS or HS + 2-3 body shots (depending on the healing tick for the medic) to kill one. Get 8-10 of them on the map and it's pointless to even shoot one...

2. The other idea might be tricky considering I remember this used to be on one of the mods, but maybe it's something that's doable. Medics could have a limited number of revival needles (2 initially, 4 at max level) that could be resupplied with fieldops ammoboxes. This could shorten the sustainability of medics on the field that are currently the main pushing force honestly. I know we already limit medics with the lack of adrenaline as that would be an overkill, but with a limitation of medics to 2 or 4 we could bring that one back.

We limit soldiers panzer/bazooka to one per team. We limit fieldops to 2 per team. We should limit medics and give other roles more meaning.

Bro i feel  your opinion and i respect it, but personally, i agree with the part of not having adrenaline, its anoying the limit of fops and the messages of too much artilhery requested but understandable so we dont have an artyfest, but in the part of limiting number of medics and needle quantity.. hmm i dont agree, its a way of playing, a strategy, if allies are all medics and one engie, axis can do the same and is equal ( in theory) , what i do feel server needs is a lot of SENSIBILITY to do shuffles and balance teams. Cuz you can have 5 medics that are not very skilled, and have 5 engies FRAGGERS and the result will be 5 medics dead spawning again and again.. feel me? at the end is all about the skill of each players and each teams, team playing and strategy, and a bit of luck also. For me Thats what makes the pub factor, the challenge of playing as a team with players u dont play frequently and u dont know, that freestyle makes every single map and game different. If we limit number of medics, it will cut the satisfaction of many guys that come here to play sometimes like in a work break, or free day of work , etc, i guess it shouldnt be more limited so people dont start to go to other servers feel me?

Sometimes we are on a weaker team regarding the enemy having a lot of GOOD players so... WE GO ALL MEDICS and balance it LOLOLOL or not!!!! ahaha its always a challenge to discover.

Cheers Covert Ops specialist xD

 

Edited by n'papo?
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Considering that we're about to update passive medics healing from 6hp/tick to 3hp/tick should be sufficient for now. Let's see how this will look from now on for the next week or so and we can tackle this topic again down the road :)

Cheers,
Bart

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TBH, we had some kind of bug where medics had limited amount of needles. And this game is respawn based (with reduced spawntimes - not 20/30s like default or smth) so there is no big deal if the amount of needles would be limited (10 for example) and can be gained back with ammo packs or the needle would have some recharge time. :D 

But thats a decent debate to have but I would not count too heavily on people supporting changes. :) 

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The never-ending-story of "nerfing medics"...

1. Whilst I respect your opinion, I don't agree with any of your suggestions.

2. This topic has been brought up many times.

3. Tampering with server settings regarding balance/skills restrictions/nerfing/etc. is an easy and fast way to kill a server.

4. Medic is and always has been the main and core class in ET, for many years.

5. People like playing medic.

6. Look at the server popularity. Look at server's rank in Gametracker (2nd). Look again.

7. Look at point 6 and tell me why should we change anything?

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On 9/15/2020 at 12:25 AM, Bystry said:

The never-ending-story of "nerfing medics"...

1. Whilst I respect your opinion, I don't agree with any of your suggestions.

2. This topic has been brought up many times.

3. Tampering with server settings regarding balance/skills restrictions/nerfing/etc. is an easy and fast way to kill a server.

4. Medic is and always has been the main and core class in ET, for many years.

5. People like playing medic.

6. Look at the server popularity. Look at server's rank in Gametracker (2nd). Look again.

7. Look at point 6 and tell me why should we change anything?

I dont like playing as medic..

 

And second limiting things and puttin all as into soldiers makes teams like 1 engi 1 medic 1 cov-op rest soldiers... tons of Mp40/Thompsons and then 1 of each gun.. Then game only 2 medics get points (both sides 1 medic only 1 by team).. from where to people when they get hit.. But when 15/20 are soldiers then they rather tap out than wait that 1 medic..  <<<------ Just sayin

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1 hour ago, yoshy said:

instead of ending with medic, i have a better suggestion: let's end with Soldiers and all their camp ;)

Well. Soldier roll is pretty much supportive role. 2 weaponchoices are pretty positional - mg42/browning and mortar. Cannot run around with them. Flamer and panzer can be more mobile but what you forget with most soldier classes - they cannot defend themselves too much. Panzer shoots his shots and then waits same amount of time that takes to empty out at least 2 magazines of bullets from mp40 or thompson. So what exact proposal do you have?

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  • 1 month later...
  • 9 months later...

I play medic most of the time and can empathise with nosekbk. However, medic pushes are the main engine of RtCW and ET attacks, so nerfing them will change the game drastically. In scrims people deal with them by gibbing bodies as soon as an enemy is dropped.

The OPness of medics in public games has less to do with the ability to revive and heal than the fact that they have too much ammo. In RtCW, their power was heavily checked by several facts:

1. No XP or levelling system so no extra clip or dual-wielded pistols.
2. Inability to pick up an enemy's weapon (no backstabbing sprees).
3. No ammo cabinets.
4. Self-kills and team-kills give -3 score each. Revives are worth about +3 (so TK-revives don't move your score) each and kills are +1 each.

This meant that medics were entirely reliant on lieutenants (field ops) to supply them with ammo and always played a supporting role. It is typical after an exchange of fire that medics had to make do with the pistol. This was especially difficult to RtCW as SMGs were much more deadly with higher firing rates and dealt more severe knockback. When there are breakthroughs, you would have to hold position with only pistols and wait for reinforcements.

In RtCW, there was also a limit of 10 needles per life but that is rarely reached. It made max lives games especially interesting though.

Competitive ET matches sort of reproduce this pattern of play by disabling the XP system. But it's no fun for public games I guess. It's a balance issue that ET public servers have never really managed to resolve satisfactorily in my view. Disabling medic level 4 (adrenaline) helps I guess.

Another thing about matches is that the low team sizes (6 aside usually) typically meant that you could not afford to spare a medic player to get around the enemy front to harass. A field ops or a panzerfaust/bazooka carrying soldier has better firepower and more bang for buck.

Edited by StiffWrists
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