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Hey Oldman! It's just my few toughts. Ad 1. The problem is that a grenade (or any other heavy weapon) thrown at a spawn can kill several players or not the one that was intended. Light weapoms as an answer for attacking spawner are allowed. Ad 2. Maybe it's worth considering, but... Ad 3 and Ad 4. ...but kick IS "the ultima ratio". Believe me or not. We don't kick people out of the server for any reason or just because we can. Sometimes at full server it's like pure chaos. Nobody pays attention to the requests or warnings of admins (as you have admitted yourself) and giving !warn or even pm to exact player x times in a row doesn't change anything. Of course we have some other useful commands like freeze or gib, but I have personally seen many times that a frozen player just asked why his mouse or keyboard is not working, reconnected and still spawnkilling. So, again, !kick IS the final solution giving us a chance to draw players attention. And in my opinion it should stay exactly as it is now because of it's "ultima ratio". We, as a TM community trying to make our servers friendly to everyone - from new players, to experienced ones. Sometimes our decisions / actions may seem unpopular or harmful, but we really try our best. It's just hard to please everyone. And honestly, we have a very few main rules to follow... Ad 5. Whoever was banned permanently - deserved it. Temporary ban is considered as a second (and probably not last) chance to rethink self behavior. P.S. It' s funny how different things look, depending on where you sit, right?

Hey there, I am pretty sure the team has spent alot of thought over the last years on how to handle and prevent spawn killing, and the existing rules are imho very good and clear in general. However, whether there are rules or not, it often remains a subjective decision by the team themselves who to kick and what to warn: where does for instance a spawn area end? Also it's sometimes not bad to have a general second view from outside. Thus, a few considerations for thought & discussion, if you like (didn't know where to put them, thus I use this forum area): The prohibition to spawn kill should not lead to a strategic advantage for a spawning team. E.g. if one throws nades out of a bunker that contains a spawnpoint, one should not accuse of SK if one eats a nade afterwards. This is also why an invisible wall like this, which allows bullets from just one side, would not be the best option. Maybe establish a soft-kick variation that let's one rejoin within a minute wait time or so? I mean, since I now have been kicked, just after opening a new beer to accompany the map, I can tell you it's annoying enough, if you had just warmed up and fun playing. Imho, a kick should be ultima ratio; if there are milder ways, like a warning, use them. Putting a wall of text in chat at the beginning of the match will not help much, since people - at least me - don't read it, or rather have no chance to read it. Warnings to others might also often go unread. Don't just enforce the rules because you have rules. In the end, they should imho prevent unfair practices that kill the fun not only for newer players. That being said, it's something different if someone intuitively throws a nade in spawn direction, without much thinking about it, or if someone places and airstrike and blocks the spawn exit. SK is not equal SK. When banning, consider that you have sort of a monopoly - it seems there are not many servers left today, which are well adminstrated, and well visited. Or did I oversee them? Lastly, for a better discussion culture, I'd suggest you don't close threads, let only Muppets reopen it so they can add thoughts, and re-close them again immediately afterwards. It's feels like gagging registrants, who might still have something to add. ;-) With regards, Oldman

Dear Muppets & visitors, Now, being registered, I also wanted to leave a quick thanks for maintaining the servers and the community around them. You might have seen me playing under the nickname 'oldman', which I obviously chose on the peak of my creativity.... not. (In fact I think I chose it after installing ETL to trigger some respectfulness for me being a newbie again, but instead I got pushed and teamkilled and asked if I am 60 years old in the first matches - the opposit of what I hoped for :-D ) Oldman in a nutshell: Living in Germany's capital, grew up in the Ruhr area, working in digital marketing, passionate about table soccer & other pub sports, about boxing & kickboxing, and obviously about ET - I played alot on pub like.. 10-15 years ago...? Even did a small ET weblog back then, where I curated interesting stuff that I stumbled across. Discovered ETLegacy by accident(!) like .. 3 months ago, was happy about seeing stable >76fps for the 1st time in my ET life, and immediately got en fuego again when playing.. I mean.. this thing is still beautiful: gameplay, pricetag, chat commands.. <3 Yet, I still don't know all the new maps in detail, and some things like the needle-heal (instead of TK-revive), and the covert staying disguised while shooting still feel strange... so, bare with me (and other elder ones). Fire in the hole! Oldman PS: anticipating the question - Oldman has just baby'ish 42 yrs on his account, but you're as old as u feel, right?! ;-)

Oof. I like me some long and essay type answers, so here we go. There are few different spawns so we have few rulesets for them: a) spawns that are capturable by one team by capturing flag or building CP (examples : bremen and frostbite cp for allies) As long as that CP is not built, you can shoot whatever inside there or camp the doorway with whatever weapon you like (mortar included) as it is not spawn. When that CP is built, you can still kill people inside spawn or camp the spawnexit with whatever weapon you like except Mortar inside spawn and on spawnexit. Usually those spawns are surrounded by walls and between walls is the spawn and the way out to next room is considered spawnexit. b) spawns that are capturable by both teams by capturing flag or building CP and remain capturable (example : battery flag spawn, battery cp spawn) As long as it can be captured, every gun except Mortar can be used inside spawn and on spawnexit. Usually those spawns are surrounded by walls too and spawnexits are easily distinguishable c) spawns that are capturable by both teams by building cp or capturing flag and will become one team permanent spawn as soon as some mission for map is completed (example : oasis flag spawn for allied, caen flag spawn for axis, radar flag spawn for allied) As long as spawn can be captured back by other team, its okay to kill inside there or camp the exit with every weapon except mortar. When the spawn will become permanent, it is against rules to use any heavy weapon inside there (soldier weapons + grenades + riflenades + satchel + arty + airstrike) and players (who are in team that is not spawning there) are allowed to pass through this spawn and return fire with light weapon when getting shot first from spawning enemy. When spawned enemy goes out and comes back to spawn then they are free to be killed with light weapons immediatelly. Also whoever who stays inside that spawn and shoot out will be counted as "spawned player who attacked first" and is allowed to be killed with light weapon. This includes also mortar who sits inside spawn and shoots out. Also (when spawn has become permanent spawn) it is allowed to use heavier weapon to block spawnexit ONLY when there is multiple exits from that spawn that are usable by default. That is why we have a rule in Oasis that we dont allow heavy weapons past broken wall for axis because allies have by default only one way out from that area (as the waterpump exit is a object to complete on its own). We dont allow arty or heavy guns to block the Supply depot flagexit for allies as strike/arty/mortar can block both ways out and in Erdenberg the little area in front of Allied flag spawn is also the only way out for allies. Also area in front of Axis flag spawn in Caen should stay arty-mortar etc free as there is no other way out. This ruleset will cover also spawns that are not capturable and are there in the beginning or will become available when map progresses and attacking team completes some objective (for example : goldrush tank area spawn, fuel dump tunnel upper spawn for allied). So. Those are the most of spawns covered and scenarios described. Questions? Throwing grenade back is not allowed because it can kill or damage also other players who are currently inside that spawn. As it can do damage to multiple players simultaneously we count nade as heavy weapon. If someone stays in spawn and throws nades out or shoots mortar - it is allowed to enter / pass that spawn and return fire with light weapon. But its important to keep in mind that you cannot be agressor in that spawn but you can only fire back. We dont tolerate rulebreaking. And to let the cooldown be just 1 minute will not make the rulebreaker to think back and reflect on what he did wrong. a) Kick without warning first is not common practise in our server. If you see in chat that you or others are warned because they broke some rules then learn from it. If something is going out of hand, then its common practise to announce in public chat that from some moment forward - all punishments for breaking rules can be stronger than just a warn. If I see 3 people in row throing grenades in axis Oasis last spawn and killing people inside there, I do one round of warning and then inform that everyone who will do it again will be booted off. b) command !rules is there to use for everyone c) it is always okay to ask member (whatever level they have) in game, in discord or in forum if something is or is not allowed. Chicken nugget asked some info about something some time ago and instead of going over the line and getting punished, he understood well where the line is drawn and kept his act cool and fine within rules. d) kick is designed to be annoying. but its surely less annoying than getting banned Use !rules is my best suggestion. Not knowing the law does not make someone innocent. It is the same way in real life. What is allowed where I live might not be allowed to where I travel. And when I am guest there, I act according their rules. Mostly !warn is used and the mistake is explained but we also keep an eye and if you do something against rules over and over again, then be ready that after 1st warning, the 2nd and 3rd can be skipped and you may be awarded with well-earned !kick. We follow the rules and expect our members, guests, owners etc to follow them. But if someone clearly do not like to play there on same terms as others than actions will be taken. I have been here more than 3 years and I have not seen someone who is new to be booted off when they break rules. !warn is usually handed with information what was done wrong and if they have questions - we will answer them. That "intuitively thrown nade that lands in spawn" can also kill and gib team only engineer for example and decide the endresult of the game. SK is equal to SK because its unfair to whoever is at the receiving end. The effect can be small or mighty but SK is still SK. If you run through axis spawn in goldrush, drop a grenade and did that by mistake and turn back and prone over the nade or say sorry immediatelly in chat then it is handled much more softer because on cannot pick up his mistakenly dropped grenade. First of all, to receive a ban - you have to do something extremely bad. If you could see the comparison between the amounts of ban or kick or warn given out, then I reckon its like 80% are warns, 18% are kicks and 2% are bans. Maybe it can be even more lopsided. When we use warn, kick, mute, ban - whatever "tool" to keep some order in server then its not to show power but to keep that stability that every player ingame has equal chance to attack the object or defend it and if someone abuses others then they will be "made equal" or "taken out of equasion". If we lose 3 players who do not care about rules and that the space in server is shared by everyone but keep 2 players then I reckon its a quality over quantity deal that we take every day. We have followed that somewhat strict all the time and Im confident that because we are well administrated we are also well visited. I understand you mean Jessica responding to your topic about him although Jesus closed it for review - im sure it will discussed if found necessary. If you have any further question - let me know. C#

Hello Oldman.You are old enough to be @Jessica grandson

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