Amount of Grenades

[uips]

Im curios what do people generally feel about the amount of nades. Perhaps lowering the amount up to 2x. Why? Adlernest for example is such a nade party. I personally dont find it very fun when the biggest chance for u to die is from random nade on some situations. As there are restrictions to other heavy weapons for similar reasons i guess. I feel like when the server gets full, that is a lot of people and lot of grenades and when considering the size of maps the amount of nades gets ridiculous and starts stealing away the fun. When securing an objectives depends on how many nades per second you can throw foe example. I think playing a class that has 1 grenade instead of 2 will increase the value of that one nade for certain situations as you may not want to just spam those nades out somewhere for a lucky kill. The same way like Teamkilling enabled forces you to think more before shooting having less grenades perhaps would make one think more before throwing and therefore reducing the random nade party that happens pretty often when the server is rather full. Do people feel the same way? I hope lot of people can share their thoughts here about the topic and open up some more perspectives perhaps.

[Dragonkiss]

On small maps nadin the crap is often the only way to break through an medic invested defense. I don’t think reducing the number of nades will compensate the small map/high number of players issue. It’s a fact that some maps are just too small for 25/25 players no matter what you try to change (spawn times/number of heavy weapons and so on). But that’s my opinion 😊

[Dmxj]

Option NO
1) I'm pretty sure limiting nades is not even possible. (total per team - per class is possible)

How would you script this if a team has per example 10 players = 8 medics (each 2 nades in our server) + 2 engis (4 nade each).  You want a maximum of 5 nades per team (example) how would you let the game decide who gets the nades and who not? Who will benefit the most at that moment and who can defend himself the most because the advantage of that moment in the game

Option YES/IF THERE IS A POSSIBILITY
2) If there is a possibilty to limiting nades per class (example 1 nade each class).

How would you reduce the amount of nades if theres is 25 players in Team Axis (all having 1 nade maximum), the total amount of nades will stay the same if you reduce it per class

Not sure if there is any kind of feature in legacy but i doubt this....

@Kimi - @Aciz - @Aranud or @RaFaL could answer this better i guess. 

My Conclusion:

Anyway in my opinion nades is a part of a defence strategy and for sure in adlernest where the "transmitter' is hidden by walls around it, what gives the axis a minimal way to defend it without nades (Front stage)

Hope you get my point 🙂

Edited February 4, 2022 by Dmxj

[uips]

Medics are most overpowered class in terms of HP and healing. Often like 80% of the team is just medics and some rare times even 100%. Limiting medics nades to 1 would be first to limit in my opinion, as class name implies it should be rather supportive class for team not a killermachine, which it often times actually is :D. I would not mind playing Medic with 1 nade as i mentioned deficiency adds value.

Edited February 4, 2022 by uips

[Meo]

2 hours ago, uips said:

Im curios what do people generally feel about the amount of nades.

I hate them.

[Sebast1an]

I don't think medics with 2 nades are the main issue. Engineers with a rifle have 16 nades to play with which seems excessive in my opinion. If possible, I'd give them 6 for rifle and 4 regular as a start.

[Ctrz]

I dont think we should start modifying everything that has been acceptable last 15+ years. 😕  That includes the amount of nades someone has.

[DiNg]

On maps such as Adlernest nades are actually one of the only ways to hold a proper but still shaky defence versus a teamplay-based allied team

[Nanaa]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:13 PM, Sebast1an said:

I don't think medics with 2 nades are the main issue. Engineers with a rifle have 16 nades to play with which seems excessive in my opinion. If possible, I'd give them 6 for rifle and 4 regular as a start.

Yeah, this could help. Engies even have 9 riflenades nowadays. Just watch detdet playing defence sometimes  https://www.twitch.tv/detdet_ But if spawn is near, self kill restock downtime is still quite short.

Big factor is that we play maps that have only a few routes and they all have tight chokepoints. Not at all ideal for 24 vs 24 players matches. It's good that we got new versions with more routes like for Oasis and Goldrush... but more is needed. Caen, Adlernest, Supply Depot, Special Delivery, Braundorf are all quite spammy.

[Ctrz]

7 hours ago, Nanaa said:

Yeah, this could help. Engies even have 9 riflenades nowadays. Just watch detdet playing defence sometimes  https://www.twitch.tv/detdet_ But if spawn is near, self kill restock downtime is still quite short.

Big factor is that we play maps that have only a few routes and they all have tight chokepoints. Not at all ideal for 24 vs 24 players matches. It's good that we got new versions with more routes like for Oasis and Goldrush... but more is needed. Caen, Adlernest, Supply Depot, Special Delivery, Braundorf are all quite spammy.

Well in all honesty, whats the difference between getting killed by smg, panzer or grenade? When someone is standing still and throwing grenades then that players is also not very protected or useful in other senses. You can use mines or arty or airstrikes or mortar or whatever to hold chokepoints. Thats the point of this game. Without nades ET would be even more a meatgrinder where everyone just keeps running in over and over and over again. Maybe thats the reason why I today somewhat dislike this game - because it has lost any tactical meaning and its just run and shoot.

[Nanaa]

36 minutes ago, Ctrz said:

Well in all honesty, whats the difference between getting killed by smg, panzer or grenade? When someone is standing still and throwing grenades then that players is also not very protected or useful in other senses. You can use mines or arty or airstrikes or mortar or whatever to hold chokepoints. Thats the point of this game. Without nades ET would be even more a meatgrinder where everyone just keeps running in over and over and over again. Maybe thats the reason why I today somewhat dislike this game - because it has lost any tactical meaning and its just run and shoot.

Getting killed by smg feels most fair to me. It sometimes feels dumb to dive through grenade and flamethrower spam near bridge on Adlernest over and over... just relying on luck to get through. Medics can't even revive when you get gibbed instantly. Can't think of a worse meat grinder (except maybe beginning of Caen). I'd argue it's tactical gameplay since it has become low effort, high reward meta for Axis.

Sure, holding chokepoints is the point of the game. But consider that the effectiveness of explosives at chokes is multiplied the bigger the teams are. Even a few grenadiers/mortar can hold off many times larger group of attackers. Rest of the defenders can set up a crossfire and shoot the lucky ones that get through the spam.

[Ctrz]

32 minutes ago, Nanaa said:

Getting killed by smg feels most fair to me. It sometimes feels dumb to dive through grenade and flamethrower spam near bridge on Adlernest over and over... just relying on luck to get through. Medics can't even revive when you get gibbed instantly. Can't think of a worse meat grinder (except maybe beginning of Caen). I'd argue it's tactical gameplay since it has become low effort, high reward meta for Axis.

Sure, holding chokepoints is the point of the game. But consider that the effectiveness of explosives at chokes is multiplied the bigger the teams are. Even a few grenadiers/mortar can hold off many times larger group of attackers. Rest of the defenders can set up a crossfire and shoot the lucky ones that get through the spam.

The issue is not nades. The issue is the number of people defending. You bring adlernest as example - when it is defended by 6 people then you have avg 2 people guarding each way in (bridge; lower; axis spawn). The corridors do not get narrower and grenades stronger but if you add 15 more people in server then its impossible to play.

If you are fan of football - have you seen how hard the game gets when defending team has all the players in defence. Same applies here. Lets just get rid of tiny maps and you will see how different the game is. Surely noone is complaining about the amount of nades in baserace for example. And for sure there are many more open area maps that are more suitable to 20vs20 gameplay than caen or adlernest.

[Nanaa]

8 hours ago, Ctrz said:

The issue is not nades. The issue is the number of people defending. You bring adlernest as example - when it is defended by 6 people then you have avg 2 people guarding each way in (bridge; lower; axis spawn). The corridors do not get narrower and grenades stronger but if you add 15 more people in server then its impossible to play.

If you are fan of football - have you seen how hard the game gets when defending team has all the players in defence. Same applies here. Lets just get rid of tiny maps and you will see how different the game is. Surely noone is complaining about the amount of nades in baserace for example. And for sure there are many more open area maps that are more suitable to 20vs20 gameplay than caen or adlernest.

I totally agree.

Except that grenades do get stronger or rather their strength starts to shine. If 1 nade killed 1 player previously, it can now kill lets say 3 players. There is no damage cap, only needs line of sight afaik. And with bigger defending team nades can be thrown even more frequently.

But if people keep voting these choked maps in full server, then no can do. Perhaps server could pick voteable maps depending on player amount.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Nanaa

[Dmxj]

18 hours ago, Nanaa said:

Yeah, this could help. Engies even have 9 riflenades nowadays. Just watch detdet playing defence sometimes  https://www.twitch.tv/detdet_ But if spawn is near, self kill restock downtime is still quite short.

Big factor is that we play maps that have only a few routes and they all have tight chokepoints. Not at all ideal for 24 vs 24 players matches. It's good that we got new versions with more routes like for Oasis and Goldrush... but more is needed. Caen, Adlernest, Supply Depot, Special Delivery, Braundorf are all quite spammy.

The main problem is newer maps didn't get votes.

We've tried so many times to add bigger maps to the Q but as long people always vote their specific well known maps as frostbite - Adlernest or Supply well you know there will be a lot of meat fest fight's everywhere.

About the rg's u might be right about reducing the amount but i don't want to touch the nades tbh

Edited February 7, 2022 by Dmxj

[Ctrz]

28 minutes ago, Dmxj said:

About the rg's u might be right about reducing the amount but i don't want to touch the nades tbh

Seems like people are fine with nerfing every class or weapon that they dont play  . 

Maybe limit nade damage then by 30%? And make medic health lower, but engineer health higher. Currently its opposite. That would even out the gameplay much more then nerfing rnades that are available to few players per team only + they cannot be spammed but just shot and they have cooldown time also.