Medic changes

[MiniMuppet]

We have decided to make a few changes to the medic setting, this is a trail for 2 weeks so would like any feed back good or bad.

 

•  Medics can't pick up their own med packs at all
•  Medics can heal teammates with their revive syringes.
• Medics regenerate normal HP at 2HP/second and extra HP at 1HP/second

 

[Holzi_Goldzunge]

Maybe something you should consider as well is

- to reduce the Artillery frequence. (currently it's Arty spam most times)

- to increase PF and (Rifle)Nade damage (funny to fly around after an indirectly hit, but not what should happen  )

- Check Spawn times. Altough it's a Beginner Server, Allies have a handicap on most maps due to short respawn time which is on some maps only 2-3 seconds apart [vice versa on Axis attack maps]

 

[HunT3r]

Hello,

I guess with that change there will be less people playing medic, and server probaly will be more empty that it was before.
And you guys shoud consider, cause there will be less Medics to change the posion knive behavior, and able the heal from and medpack, so you dont need a medic from your team anymore.


IMO removing the abilty to heal is chaning the game mechanis complety i would have started with, increasing engi/fop to 130hp and disabling the selfheal from  medic and the charge.

Edited July 7, 2023 by HunT3r

[Ctrz]

3 hours ago, HunT3r said:

IMO removing the abilty to heal is chaning the game mechanis complety i would have started with, increasing engi/fop to 130hp and disabling the selfheal from  medic and the charge.

So you like or dislike it? First part seems negative over it but in second part of sentence you suggest it yourself (+also disable charge).

 

The suggestion to nerf medics a lot has come from ppl who play in server and that include manuly evil clan people and i try to exclude me as im there very rarely (but more than in etl1). 

 

I think  the change is one of many to see how it affects everything in server. All suggestions are very welcome from all those especially who play mostly on beginners server.

 

4 hours ago, Holzi_Goldzunge said:

Maybe something you should consider as well is

- to reduce the Artillery frequence. (currently it's Arty spam most times)

- to increase PF and (Rifle)Nade damage (funny to fly around after an indirectly hit, but not what should happen  )

- Check Spawn times. Altough it's a Beginner Server, Allies have a handicap on most maps due to short respawn time which is on some maps only 2-3 seconds apart [vice versa on Axis attack maps]

 

I think those are also things to look more closely into ty for good suggestions 

[froggy]

6 hours ago, Holzi_Goldzunge said:

Maybe something you should consider as well is

- to reduce the Artillery frequence. (currently it's Arty spam most times)

- to increase PF and (Rifle)Nade damage (funny to fly around after an indirectly hit, but not what should happen  )

- Check Spawn times. Altough it's a Beginner Server, Allies have a handicap on most maps due to short respawn time which is on some maps only 2-3 seconds apart [vice versa on Axis attack maps]

 

Yep, with the good will and the good suggestions we will have a very nice beginners server!

[uips]

Some ETL main server spawn times for comparison. Although matches in full server are 20vs20.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by uips

[HunT3r]

well i think it will kill the server, cause i will proably now play somewhere else

[C64]

Finally succeeded to log on again! Couldn't get passed the confirm your e-mail because i didn't receive it!  I like it better this way. Alhtough i mostly played as medic to. The medic was way too powerful. Resulting in an overload of medics and always the same players fragging and spawn camping. A medic must now be a team player and heal his team! Overall gameplay improvement! Happy gaming Thanks TM suggestion: It would be a nice touch to prevent making bad teams like 4 vs 2...  it's always the same players who create this and the same players who have to fix it -----> C64 me 😁

[froggy]

myacid told me "these settings will be more fair ".

[Holzi_Goldzunge]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:36 PM, uips said:

Some ETL main server spawn times for comparison. Although matches in full server are 20vs20.

 

Might depend on the map.

Warbell is nearly unplayable as Axis, feels like Allies have shorter spawn times. Really bad chances to reach the flag without entering the room right to their spawn time. The missing respawn timer (compared to ETL) doesn't make it easier to time the capturing.

 

Overall it's still okay to play. I guess it's a good way to make it more even, but you should reflect the ideas from Hunter (guess it was in discord) as well.

What I observed the last days is, that most medics won't go to another medic to heal him...

[Ctrz]

1 hour ago, Holzi_Goldzunge said:

Might depend on the map.

Warbell is nearly unplayable as Axis, feels like Allies have shorter spawn times. Really bad chances to reach the flag without entering the room right to their spawn time. The missing respawn timer (compared to ETL) doesn't make it easier to time the capturing.

 

Overall it's still okay to play. I guess it's a good way to make it more even, but you should reflect the ideas from Hunter (guess it was in discord) as well.

What I observed the last days is, that most medics won't go to another medic to heal him...

I think spawntime changes etc needs separate topic in forum. But very good that you also pointed it out.

[Holzi_Goldzunge]

One week over.. Am not around next week, hence some feedback from playing the last days:

•  Medics can heal teammates with their revive syringes. << Please, add a Server Banner. Even after a week, many frequent players are not aware 😅 Overall a good change!
• Medics regenerate normal HP at 2HP/second and extra HP at 1HP/second << Isn't it the default setting? Didn't feel different
• Medics can't pick up their own med packs at all <<< It's ok as long as youre playing with somebody else (also medic). The moment you're the only medic in team you're lost. Especially if you play objective and defend dynamite for example.

I suggest the following:

• Reduce Medic health maximum to 135/140
• Keep Syringe heal for <=35HP enabled
• Reduce Medic Charge / or (if possible) reduce HP recovery rate from med packs and re-enable the self heal (Proposal 1)
• Enable self-healing as a medic when you heal somebody else with med packs. (Proposal 2)
• ----- OTHER TOPICS -----
• Rework Spawn Times (Ctrz has created a separate topic on this)
• Reduce Artillery Spam
• Enable self-kill in fight if you dont reactivate a possibility to heal yourself as a medic

 

 

[froggy]

Hello Gold
I agree with all you wrote except the self-kill in fight. Actually, the medic is exactly like all the other functions were before the new settings arrived : no self-kill and no possibility of self heal.
I give you my opinion: No self kill means that you have to accept the consequences of the fight until you are killed or until you get some health. Believe me, i often accept the consequences of the fight until i die 😄
So many fraggers self kill so many times in order not to be killed...
I often saw frustrations when "weak" players miss the  kill of a "good" player cause this one killed himself during the fight.
Still in my opinion, self kill works against team play...

[Danimal]

On 7/7/2023 at 11:18 AM, MiniMuppet said:

We have decided to make a few changes to the medic setting, this is a trail for 2 weeks so would like any feed back good or bad.

 

•  Medics can't pick up their own med packs at all
•  Medics can heal teammates with their revive syringes.
• Medics regenerate normal HP at 2HP/second and extra HP at 1HP/second

 

Is this actually in place? I don't think so?  I havent noticed not being able to pick up my med packs? As someone who plays medic a lot and actually tries to revive players rather than just frag, I'm against this change. Quite often I will literally run into fire to revive someone or pull out my syringe to revive before firing back at the enemy. This often results in my death or being very depleted in terms of health - I need those health packs in my bag! If I can't self-heal... I will not revive first, shoot later... I will shoot first and revive later (if still alive) and i would imagine a lot of meds will not bother running into the line of fire to try and revive a teammate.  If you want to alter the balance, my  recommendation would be to reduce the effectiveness of the needle to two thirds of someone's health rather than a full revive. But I too would like to reduce amount of arty and mortar that can be fired by a player... my two cents...

[MiniMuppet]

17 minutes ago, Danimal said:

Is this actually in place? I don't think so?  I havent noticed not being able to pick up my med packs? As someone who plays medic a lot and actually tries to revive players rather than just frag, I'm against this change. Quite often I will literally run into fire to revive someone or pull out my syringe to revive before firing back at the enemy. This often results in my death or being very depleted in terms of health - I need those health packs in my bag! If I can't self-heal... I will not revive first, shoot later... I will shoot first and revive later (if still alive) and i would imagine a lot of meds will not bother running into the line of fire to try and revive a teammate.  If you want to alter the balance, my  recommendation would be to reduce the effectiveness of the needle to two thirds of someone's health rather than a full revive. But I too would like to reduce amount of arty and mortar that can be fired by a player... my two cents...

This should be in place so you will have to check when you play next.

I can look at arty and mortar see what if any thing can be changed with them.

[knuX]

@Danimalthis change was made on the beginners server so different to what we play

[Ctrz]

1 hour ago, Danimal said:

Is this actually in place? I don't think so?  I havent noticed not being able to pick up my med packs? As someone who plays medic a lot and actually tries to revive players rather than just frag, I'm against this change. Quite often I will literally run into fire to revive someone or pull out my syringe to revive before firing back at the enemy. This often results in my death or being very depleted in terms of health - I need those health packs in my bag! If I can't self-heal... I will not revive first, shoot later... I will shoot first and revive later (if still alive) and i would imagine a lot of meds will not bother running into the line of fire to try and revive a teammate.  If you want to alter the balance, my  recommendation would be to reduce the effectiveness of the needle to two thirds of someone's health rather than a full revive. But I too would like to reduce amount of arty and mortar that can be fired by a player... my two cents...

Yea, like @knuX already said - the change was done in nitmod beginners server.

In my eyes - soldiers should be the one fighting in the front with some increased health (as they dont have other extra abilities like build, give ammo/health etc) but very heavy weapons like panzer or mortar should be kept very slow shooting pace. So that every shot would matter but it would not be spamming weapon. Engis, covies and fops should be with bit lower health as they are more agressive/forward support players and medic should be behind reviving and healing. Would be okay to raise medic overall health but in my opinion - the overall logic in ET that medic is the most fragging class makes no sense. In every other game - medic is supportive and soldier is buffed and in front.

So I would do:

Soldier - health increase to 180. Panzer/mortar etc speed low (keep it in lvl 1 maybe?) and only sidearm is pistol. Regular soldier maybe could have increased ammo (even more than today).
Engineer - health increase to 160. Riflenade/dyna/mine speed low (keep it lvl 1 like soldier maybe?). Sidearm could be thompson/mp40 when other weapon is rnade rifle. Engineers should be tanky enough to survive a little fire when building something.
Fops/Medic/Covert - health 150. Keep arty/airstrike amount low so it would matter. Giving away ammo speed - dont really matter. Ammopacks stacked on floor is fine. Medic could give medpacks but cant selfheal. Can heal from other medic packs. Can use needle to revive.

Also - no selfkill and maybe bit longer spawntimes. It would keep the overall game speed bit lower and make objective play more important with soldiers hopefully becoming the fighting class that helps engineers to fulfill objectives.

But thats just how I feel a more beginner server could function - especially for people who come from other games, including other fps, and have trouble adjusting the fast speeds in ET.

[MiniMuppet]

yes this is for the beginners server not the main server sorry didn't realise you meant that.

ETlegacy doesn't have much changes for classes or arty/airstrike so i won't be making any changes to these on the main server.

 

[froggy]

22 hours ago, Danimal said:

Is this actually in place? I don't think so?  I havent noticed not being able to pick up my med packs? As someone who plays medic a lot and actually tries to revive players rather than just frag, I'm against this change. Quite often I will literally run into fire to revive someone or pull out my syringe to revive before firing back at the enemy. This often results in my death or being very depleted in terms of health - I need those health packs in my bag! If I can't self-heal... I will not revive first, shoot later... I will shoot first and revive later (if still alive) and i would imagine a lot of meds will not bother running into the line of fire to try and revive a teammate.  If you want to alter the balance, my  recommendation would be to reduce the effectiveness of the needle to two thirds of someone's health rather than a full revive. But I too would like to reduce amount of arty and mortar that can be fired by a player... my two cents...

It's actually in place and (1 full week) and you don't think so.
You played on another server than beginners, cause only beginners is concerned, or you played on Beginners and in this case the new setting are OK for you 😄

[froggy]

about the levels of health i would say that the function more exposed is engie. The soldiers often shoot from a long distance (mortar, bazooka...)
So all the functions should be at the same level of heath and maybe the engie a little bit more (but just a little bit more).

[uips]

Turn Adrenaline into HP self syringe and give it to solder instead of Medic.

[froggy]

no need of adrenaline, no need of these extra powers which allow fraggers to ruin the game... Teamplay.
I am often (many hours a day, each day) on the server and yesterday one players asked why a medic can't take his medic packs. He said these new settings are stupid, then when i told him why these settings he said that he understood and some players told him they are satisfied with these settings: Klooster, and Evil Dest at least

[froggy]

zouzou appreciates the new settings too

[Holzi_Goldzunge]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:04 PM, Ctrz said:

Soldier - health increase to 180. Panzer/mortar etc speed low (keep it in lvl 1 maybe?) and only sidearm is pistol. Regular soldier maybe could have increased ammo (even more than today).
Engineer - health increase to 160. Riflenade/dyna/mine speed low (keep it lvl 1 like soldier maybe?). Sidearm could be thompson/mp40 when other weapon is rnade rifle. Engineers should be tanky enough to survive a little fire when building something.
Fops/Medic/Covert - health 150. Keep arty/airstrike amount low so it would matter. Giving away ammo speed - dont really matter. Ammopacks stacked on floor is fine. Medic could give medpacks but cant selfheal. Can heal from other medic packs. Can use needle to revive.

Also - no selfkill and maybe bit longer spawntimes. It would keep the overall game speed bit lower and make objective play more important with soldiers hopefully becoming the fighting class that helps engineers to fulfill objectives.
 

Would disagree with that amount of HP.

Currently the Medic has 154HP with Helmet, so it needs 3 Headshot and 1 Bodyshot to kill him. (Guess HS is 50HP, maybe lower with Helmet). Imagine you're new to the game and have to kill a Soldier in that case. Agree with Soldier lvl to reduce shooting speed and sidearm is pistol.

Engis should be a supportive class and focus on Building. To do so, they need support by a Fops Arty or by a medic. If the medic is the lowest in field he neither can defend the engi while he's building at slow speed (lvl 1) nor he can heal him as he will be killed first in that setting.

Long blablabla short: If you want to change HP of the classes, simply reduce Medic to max. 140 with helmet and don't change the other classes HP.

 

Regarding Self-Kill in fight: To be honest, if I get shot to low HP after the spawn I move back and use selfkill, because the round is lost for me without the ability to heal myself. I cant get back to 140hp, hence I cant support any other class in that scenario. ==> selfkill and start after next spawn with full hp.

[Ctrz]

46 minutes ago, Holzi_Goldzunge said:

Would disagree with that amount of HP.

Currently the Medic has 154HP with Helmet, so it needs 3 Headshot and 1 Bodyshot to kill him. (Guess HS is 50HP, maybe lower with Helmet). Imagine you're new to the game and have to kill a Soldier in that case. Agree with Soldier lvl to reduce shooting speed and sidearm is pistol.

Engis should be a supportive class and focus on Building. To do so, they need support by a Fops Arty or by a medic. If the medic is the lowest in field he neither can defend the engi while he's building at slow speed (lvl 1) nor he can heal him as he will be killed first in that setting.

Long blablabla short: If you want to change HP of the classes, simply reduce Medic to max. 140 with helmet and don't change the other classes HP.

 

Regarding Self-Kill in fight: To be honest, if I get shot to low HP after the spawn I move back and use selfkill, because the round is lost for me without the ability to heal myself. I cant get back to 140hp, hence I cant support any other class in that scenario. ==> selfkill and start after next spawn with full hp.

Also one way to go is to keep medic buffed and give back selfheal but take away thompson/mp40 and leave single pistol. That way medic can heal and will not be killed first. Right?