Map rotation

[LordMarco6699]

Hey guys! 

Some new players complained about playing the same maps all the time and I would be happy if we could open a discussion about map rotation. I have to say that I agree with the fact that we do not play new maps very often. Sometimes I try to lobby for a new map and it works pretty often but without this push the same maps are always chosen.

If I am not mistaken, currently one specific map can be played every 10maps, what about increasing the interval to 15? 

[Ctrz]

Not a bad idea to increase interval. But we could also go back to some certain rotation for a while. We used to had it, then people left when some map began .. which they still do  so I don't see much difference. The voting is nice, but even with full server (40+) people I usually see like maybe 5-8 people voting and then others complain when new map begins.

Food for thought anyways.

[Dragonkiss]

I always vote for lesser known or unknown maps, but kids only want to play what they know… There are so many maps on rotation with catchy names that sounds very exciting but we still end up with the same 5 maps…

[divine_one]

We gave people the possibilyty to choose, and majority decides what maps they want to play.

I wouldn't change it much, but incerasing the interval a little can be a good solution.

 

[Ande]

Sound worth to try if it possible? Getting little bored playing same maps every evening.

[StarScream]

Increasing the interval might help a little.

Honestly, I'd love to see a random map rotation (obviously with the 10 or 15 map 'already played' interval).

[Flo]

Very good idea, we indeed need to do something to help to push for new maps to be played - the more we will play them, the more they will be accepted by players in regular rotation

[Ctrz]

1 hour ago, Flo said:

Very good idea, we indeed need to do something to help to push for new maps to be played - the more we will play them, the more they will be accepted by players in regular rotation

Sounds good in theory, failed in reality in past but its very fair to try again. Current system also doesnt actually show the majority descision but the result of the few active people voting.  

[Charlie]

We can change set g_minMapAge "10" to something more but it wouldn't be beneficial imo. Depending on what gets voted for, 10 maps could be longer than a players play time so they will never see a map they'd like to play. 10 - 12 seems to be the sweet spot after all the fiddling we have done over the years. I don't think we'll ever move from the map vote system, I mean we always want people to have the most input they can.

 

If a map is good then it will get played. Take Pirates for example - that was an addition years ago and proved to be a pretty decent success. Decay is another one that springs to mind for smaller games. Unfortunately ET is an old game and any maps has either already been tried or isn't working/suitable for a large public server. We will always chop and change maps but we can never force people to play them and expect to keep a healthy server.

[PatrickJane]

Why dont u make voteing visible again? I always try to push for new map, but if theres 5 new maps in rotation at the same time, i dont know where to put my votes in. When it was visible u could push certain map and people would go along with it and less popular maps was ceranly more frequent in the old system. 

[uips]

On 5/22/2022 at 7:38 PM, LordMarco6699 said:

If I am not mistaken, currently one specific map can be played every 10maps, what about increasing the interval to 15? 

This value will define rotation length. If we take most popular map adlernest for example. It will be played every 10th map, increasing this value to 12 will give spot for 2 more maps and increase variety and decrease the amount of times u play  your fav map. If majority feels like we keep playing same maps all the time this value should be increased.

On 5/23/2022 at 5:59 PM, Ctrz said:

The voting is nice, but even with full server (40+) people I usually see like maybe 5-8 people voting and then others complain when new map begins.

I agree. Voting should be ENCOURAGED. Bigger vote button? Colors, sounds messages, changes to menu. Its important that every player vote for map for most accurate pick for next map.

On 5/23/2022 at 8:12 PM, divine_one said:

We gave people the possibilyty to choose, and majority decides what maps they want to play.

That is the best way. If there are 40 players then all of them should participate in the voting for best results.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:49 AM, PatrickJane said:

Why dont u make voteing visible again? I always try to push for new map, but if theres 5 new maps in rotation at the same time, i dont know where to put my votes in. When it was visible u could push certain map and people would go along with it and less popular maps was ceranly more frequent in the old system. 

Visible voting is bad idea, ive seen it on other servers and ive end up manipulating the system, last minute voting etc. It should be neutral decision from every player that decides the outcome.

Ive also made suggestions to legacay dev team about map voting to make it more simple and clear. it will also fix the issue for you when u cant decide which new map to vote for

https://github.com/etlegacy/etlegacy/discussions/1939

Edited June 1, 2022 by uips

[LordMarco6699]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:50 AM, uips said:

It will be played every 10th map, increasing this value to 12 will give spot for 2 more maps and increase variety

Exactly, I think that a 12 or rather 13 map rotation would be better than the current one. It will bring more diversity. Perhaps we could make a small survey/vote? 

Edited June 2, 2022 by LordMarco6699

[HeRcErMeR]

Aren’t you the economics nerd Marco??  Throw some figures together showing supply and demand for maps on server by using how many times voted/played since stats displayed while awaiting new map, and find us the sweet spot getting most map rotations with best interval before repetition! Figure out profitability index and what’s the cost of having certain maps vs bigger/smaller map pools; perform a cost-benefit analysis.  What maps have substantial fungibility and which have the absolute advantage? What maps cause the server to slump?? Identify maps with biggest yields.
 

Use that brain of yours and figure this out! 😎 There’s complaints on voting and you wanna start another vote?? Avoid that risk aversion and  help stimulate wealth effect 😈 Think long-term, not short-term. Can’t expect rational expectations/choice! And don’t contribute to scared-city; lay down the law with your newly developed fiscal map policies 😜

[Dragonkiss]

Out of the box thought: the lesser someone votes the heavier his/her vote counts when she/he votes? So if I don’t vote for 5 rounds my vote counts for 3 or 4?

[StarScream]

10 hours ago, Dragonkiss said:

Out of the box thought: the lesser someone votes the heavier his/her vote counts when she/he votes? So if I don’t vote for 5 rounds my vote counts for 3 or 4?

That just creates perverse incentives.

What will happen is that people will deliberately not vote so they can force through the map they want later. Ultimately it will result in every map choice coming down to one or a few players with 'heavy votes,' creating nothing more than a rotating dictatorship.

[Dragonkiss]

14 hours ago, StarScream said:

That just creates perverse incentives.

What will happen is that people will deliberately not vote so they can force through the map they want later. Ultimately it will result in every map choice coming down to one or a few players with 'heavy votes,' creating nothing more than a rotating dictatorship.

So nothing changes then 🤣🤣

[Ctrz]

On 6/24/2022 at 11:37 AM, HeRcErMeR said:

Aren’t you the economics nerd Marco??  Throw some figures together showing supply and demand for maps on server by using how many times voted/played since stats displayed while awaiting new map, and find us the sweet spot getting most map rotations with best interval before repetition! Figure out profitability index and what’s the cost of having certain maps vs bigger/smaller map pools; perform a cost-benefit analysis.  What maps have substantial fungibility and which have the absolute advantage? What maps cause the server to slump?? Identify maps with biggest yields.
 

Use that brain of yours and figure this out! 😎 There’s complaints on voting and you wanna start another vote?? Avoid that risk aversion and  help stimulate wealth effect 😈 Think long-term, not short-term. Can’t expect rational expectations/choice! And don’t contribute to scared-city; lay down the law with your newly developed fiscal map policies 😜

It's not hard to actually produce that list of preferred maps by time/ amount of people playing at that time/ etc if provided with enough data to run these calculations on. But whatever solution will be suggested, even if backed by data fully, there will be always people who are against it because they are just protesting or mocking or complaining for no good reason.

Would you play that calculated and suggested rotation blindly without questioning it or complaining about it @HeRcErMeR ? Or you just tried to google some words and make jokes at @LordMarco6699 expence without actually adding anything useful to this suggestion topic?

[StarScream]

6 hours ago, Ctrz said:

It's not hard to actually produce that list of preferred maps by time/ amount of people playing at that time/ etc if provided with enough data to run these calculations on. But whatever solution will be suggested, even if backed by data fully, there will be always people who are against it because they are just protesting or mocking or complaining for no good reason.

Would you play that calculated and suggested rotation blindly without questioning it or complaining about it @HeRcErMeR ? Or you just tried to google some words and make jokes at @LordMarco6699 expence without actually adding anything useful to this suggestion topic?

Hey now, Herc is a TM friend and his response was just some lighthearted joshing. Your response was completely unnecessary. 

[Ctrz]

21 minutes ago, StarScream said:

Hey now, Herc is a TM friend and his response was just some lighthearted joshing. Your response was completely unnecessary. 

My response only asked if he was making jokes or an actual suggestion.

Didnt know that TM friends somehow ranks now above TM members and we need to handle them with white gloves and extreme caution only.    jeez, relax.

[StiffWrists]

I rarely vote now because we keep getting outvoted. One contributory factor is that there are a number of novel maps and without one particular choice to rally behind, votes get spread thin.

I'd like to see the tallies as people are voting and have the ability to change my vote.

 

[uips]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:20 AM, StiffWrists said:

 

I'd like to see the tallies as people are voting and have the ability to change my vote.

 

i have seen this in use in another server. I do not recommend it. It results in mess as people start changing votes in last secs to 2nd fav or whatever. Manipulating the voting system, making last minute changes in favor of yourself. Not seeing the result until voted will not let u manipulate the voting as it will give true result. If u do not like the result then u are not the part of majority at given time. Accuracy of the result depends on the % of people voting.

Making the list smaller will also decrease point spread as there will be lesser few vote maps. Perhaps make it list of 6, compared to current 8 if i am right

Another option would be to decrease chance of map appearing on list based on amount of votes received. This will give more chance to other not so popular maps but also its questionable to limit popular/favorite maps as it seems majority of people rather keep playing those.

Average rotation seems to be around 13-15 maps, maybe after 14 maps, 15th cycle a custom list (3-5maps) of few new maps or not so popular maps for players to try. Although this is also questionable because in reality the 15th cycle will always be the one where u see most players leave.

I still recommend to give the vote even if u think it will not succeed. For example if half players skip the vote phase. Value of the vote increases by 100%. By doing so you increase the chance of other people getting the map they want.

[StiffWrists]

I'm not sure I understand how the vote manipulation happens. I can see how there could be a scramble though.

I agree that increasing interval would help. Maybe tune it such that we have around 3 novel/uncommon maps each round. That way, people like me can just use my 3 votes to cover all or nearly all the candidates.

 

[SuperDomeDome]

yep, that was my idea (despite i'm sure someone else complained about it). Increase the interval from 13 (should be around 12-13 now, i would increase to 17-18) 
Right now couple of map are always played once respawn as 13th (Braundorf, Bremen, Aldernest, Depot, erdenberg etc) 
The only reason i can think about it is that they are old (so everyone was used to play them )  / very easy to understand 

There are so many other good maps that never get played just because people don't know what to do. 
But it doesn't really requires that much to learn about it, it only needs to get used to play them