Unbalanced teams

[froggy]

Hi all
Today i left the server cause the teams were totally unbalanced.
We started 2 vs 2, fair game, but each player connecting joined my team (allies).
When i said to the first 2 players coming that they sucked unbalancing teams (2 vs 5), Jiiihaxxd (or a name like that but Jihad in fact) told me that i was gay.
Finally we were 6 vs 1 so i left.
It is not the first time that the teams are so unbalanced, so i wonder if there is a way to exclude the bots from the number of players and force the coming players to balance the teams.

[froggy]

30 minutes later: 5 vs 2...

[Sebast1an]

An excellent suggestion. People tend to stack the bots to one side making it unfair.

[Boosted]

No Offence intented - If they join your Team making it unbalanced, why dont you switch over?

I know i prefer being Allied as well because i prefer attacking but if its uneven i switch anyway, since it will make the Game more enjoyable for everyone.

Its just an ongoing thing which we cant do nothing about when no Member is on the Server, but the Regulars themselfs can do something about it.

The Bots cant be set up this Way that they leave like this.

They only leave when 12 Players are playing and replace them.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Boosted

[froggy]

when 6 vs 2 that you switch won't change the fact that teams are unbalanced.
I already changed 5 or 6 times my team in only one map and that ruins my fun as i play for the objective.
Ii prefer the attacking side too, but look at my stats: i mainly play axis in order to balance the teams.
That's true that the great part of the maps proposed to the vote makes allies attack...

So if nothing can be done to balance the teams, we will continue like before..

[Boosted]

As long as no Member is there the best thing that can be done it to talk to Players to try and convince them to switch...i know there are many which dont care at all, they just want to win in any way possible.

You can also try and pass by on our Discord Channel and see if someone can help you out (Members can put Bots to other Teams).

[froggy]

Thanks Boosted  :-)

[eMMiel]

I don't think if it's possible in ETLegacy. But i know it's possible in NoQuarter. 

When you join a server loaded with bots, you always have one less slot in the team with lesser players. So you must join that team or else you can't play. 

So for example when you join you got 6 allies (3 real players + 3 bots)- 5  axis (2 real players 3 bots) going on. If you You don't have a choice to join Allies.

Maybe that could be a solution for this.

Edited October 25, 2020 by eMMiel

[Boosted]

Worth a suggestion to the Devs... wouldnt be bad if this was a choice.

[Stumpel]

Its not problem which comes only from time by to other.. Its problem which quite common.. The thing is that there and many players who want play "Allies" Those guys and girls who are those mostly do like this.. They continously go to allies and dont care about teams goes unfair.. Then balance system balances teams so it takes them.. And under 0,5 sec they go to spec and back allies... I have seen too that when system says teams are not in balance that they are unfair, eample 17-14 Then in that 17 players team are TM's which doesnt do nothing to keep it even I mean those players are in there doesnt switch.. I switch myself yes, but someothers not... Mostly have seen teams bouncin like 20 times row to same side gets unbalanced.. then back and back unbalanced.. I mean if it goes continously runnin spec to back after moved via balancer.. then better just kick.. IF DOESNT UNDERSTAND THAT TEAMS BALANCER ISNT A TOY.. THAT TEAMS SHOULD BE BALANCED.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Stumpel

[eMMiel]

You are 100% procent right @Stumpel. Allot of people don't care for playing axis. I prefer it actually. But I also understand that we need to look for a solution for this. As this is not cool for the first people that joins the server, when there are still bots present. 

[StarScream]

On 10/26/2020 at 1:20 PM, eMMiel said:

You are 100% procent right @Stumpel. Allot of people don't care for playing axis. I prefer it actually. But I also understand that we need to look for a solution for this. As this is not cool for the first people that joins the server, when there are still bots present. 

As you and Stumpel have pointed out there is a pro-allies bias with a lot of players (myself included) both in low-player matches and high-player matches. This bias inevitably unbalances the teams; at first for low-player matches, and over several matches for high-player matches.

I don't think it is a distaste for the Axis side, but rather a preference on the part of many players to be on the attacking side, especially for those who value objective play.

The solution, therefore, seems simple: ensure that there is a balance of maps - as close to 50% of maps as possible should allow Axis to attack; meaning both teams get to attack and defend with greater regularity.

Edited October 30, 2020 by StarScream

[Boosted]

Problem is the vote system.

The most ppl which like playing Axis like to defend...so they vote "Allies" Maps.

So obviously do Allied Players.

I for myself prefer Allies as well, but if there is an imbalance i dont hesitate to switch.

I also then vote for Maps on which Axis attack but lose the Vote by Miles.

With Map Voting this will never happen.

The best chance to have this happen is on the Campaign Server where the Admins could carefully choose a balanced Campaign.

[Charlie]

I prefer playing Axis. I guess waiting for the eager medics to bounce forward fits my play style more for fragging. And I like doing prep as an engi with mines and so on if I can.

We're always looking for axis attack maps but unfortunately there are far less of them, and a good axis attacking map that is balanced and fits the server ... we pretty much have them all, or have at least tried them. If people have suggestions then let us know, after Halloween the spooky maps will be removed meaning there's 2 spaces for maps available.

[Sebast1an]

It's not very easy to keep the teams balanced for very long. Simply because maps are balanced differently and you can't use the same balance for many maps in a row and have it fair. At some point the balance is going to swift towards either side.

Keeping a good balance is obviously harder in smaller numbers since one player can have a bigger impact. But I think that in order to have a fair 20vs20, the teams are in fact not balanced but the offending team has to be slightly better in order to make it fair. If a match is a fair game, then if the teams were swapped and the map played again, I think the defence would be too good and teams would be considered unfair. This is due to the fact that defence is always easier when playing with randoms and 0 communication so the attacking team has to have some advantage to start with.

I don't think the solution to this is in the Axis attack maps. They however bring a nice change of pace so please keep as many as you can.

When it comes to preferring allies/axis, I think the objective playing type of player prefers allies (offence) while the fragging type prefers axis (defence). Defending is not much of "objective playing" while offending often means you run into the defence of 2-3 players and keep dying. At least the enemy will come to you when you defend. I don't mind either but to me some maps are funnier to attack and some are funnier to defend so it's not as simple as "I prefer x".

[Stumpel]

I dont care about which team or side.. I just switch if needed.. I dont start think how history went.. Or Trumps president election..

[DiNg]

Players also need to understand that a win for the defending team doesn't mean teams are unbalanced.

[Ctrz]

1 hour ago, DiNg said:

Players also need to understand that a win for the defending team doesn't mean teams are unbalanced.

yeap. also getting flag fast for example in supply, radar or oasis doesnt mean that attacking team is very strong. it can be very lucky timing that helps one or other side.  

[Stumpel]

Is it possible edit that autobalancer code little (if it works then), that it picks or moves first players with <=TM=> tag.. So then it work like that clan members or admins gets moved if needed..   

[BladeWarrioR]

3 hours ago, Stumpel said:

 So then it work like that clan members or admins gets moved if needed..   

IMO members should be doing this anyway. The auto-balance should never happen when members are on the server and are playing ...

Im gonna get alot of complaints in me saying that but its just my opinion

Edited November 11, 2020 by BladeWarrioR

[MiniMuppet]

Balance isn't just about amount of players on each team though its about skill. I however would expect to see member moving a little more then they do but they should really only move if that would help the losing team and not if the team was over skill already and they would make it worse. If they can not move would also be nice to see them ask the skilled player also if they could even it up. I also understand people want to enjoy there time on the server so it also trying to find that balance or there is no point in playing.

We will not make the auto balance member only as this wouldn't work if only one member was on the server they would be moving all the time.

[Boosted]

Good point Mini.

I often switch over, but if that makes the smaller Team even stronger as it already is i wont and just hope a "weaker" Player switches or gets switched.

Changing the Balancer in any way wont help the Situation, Players just need to be a lil smarter and also good sports.

[Stumpel]

22 hours ago, BladeWarrioR said:

IMO members should be doing this anyway. The auto-balance should never happen when members are on the server and are playing ...

Im gonna get alot of complaints in me saying that but its just my opinion

But sometimes there are playing players and like example 4 TM's and both sides have them, even stronger then system says 3 times can someone switch team..And then then autobalncer takes some guy from other team which immediately goes to spec.. And jumps back and when after backjump asomeone leaves then again that message start blink.. And soon same happens again..  I mean that was team stronger or weaker was in stronger team any of us, the players doesnt switch, I dont say any names but we have some who doesnt do change when system asks to change.. That why I think that kind of thing.. And MiniMuppet you are right..

[slowtobi]

On 11/12/2020 at 2:23 PM, Stumpel said:

IMO members should be doing this anyway. The auto-balance should never happen when members are on the server and are playing ...

Im gonna get alot of complaints in me saying that but its just my opinion

@BladeWarrioR you wont get complains from me about this issue, it really takes some patience to stand the ignorance about members balancing. Started a thread about it in january. My actual way to avoid switching teams all the time, is going spec and for a smoke when it gets annoying. And dont switch in the last 3 minutes or when the obj is nearly done, as many people just drop because of defeat this is useless.

I still stand with the statement from the former thread, i would go even further turn balancer off. Give responsibiltity for even teams back to the players and members. Although i dont have the impression that it got worse the last year. But having the balancer makes socializing with the players  less necessary.
When only 6 persons are on the server, balancing can only happen in social ways. Imo we have to insist on  fun for all , not competitive play on our Legacy 1 server.

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by slowtobi

[Duro]

Will always be a hot topic i guess, the balancing.