Some changes to balance things a little?

[lost]

57 minutes ago, Dragonkiss said:

And remove medic class together with mortar…

Can we Just finish this crying about medic class ? Medics are not causing any chaos comparing for example to engineers with 8 nades and rifles. For me medic can have limited his class only to 1 point (no green syringe, lower speed of recharging medpacks etc) but it will not change anything comparing to spam of nades, mortar etc

Edited May 3, 2023 by lost

[Ctrz]

20 minutes ago, lost said:

Can we Just finish this crying about medic class ? Medics are not causing any chaos comparing for example to engineers with 8 nades and rifles. For me medic can have limited his class only to 1 point (no green syringe, lower speed of recharging medpacks etc) but it will not change anything comparing to spam of nades, mortar etc

Well its a difference when you hit engineer half of his health and you know that he will stay on that. But if you hit medic.. he either runs and hides to heal or overall full health all the time anyways. Keep medics their green syringe and speed to recharge medpacks but just make them unable to eat their own medpacks. That will make them fair. Grenades are mostly in certain areas of the map, but geerilla medics run everywhere.

[Morton Salt]

Sometimes u need to play all classes to see things diffrently. 

If i would play only engie i could say that i dont see any problems with boom booms, as my thick skin of engideer can survive, enter and kill nade spammers.

So yes meds wont see how bullet spoonge they are and that they can survive stuff others classes cant, maybe expect that nade spam. 

Conclushyn, dont change anything lol. 

[Jessica]

6 hours ago, Morton Salt said:

Conclushyn, dont change anything lol. 

Morton, please read back all my postst to this topic and you start to understand.
All I wanted to create was a slow awareness of what you say above  

The game is disigned for all classes, some can be anoying, some can be hard, but its ALL PART OF THE GAME.

 

[Cyber]

I don't know, jess... I'd even go as far as to give medics only luger/colt... You're supposed to heal, not fight. Smg is definitely fighting weapon. If you get attacked, just peel off enemy's health with pistol while running away and eating medapcks

[Ctrz]

3 minutes ago, Cyber said:

I don't know, jess... I'd even go as far as to give medics only luger/colt... You're supposed to heal, not fight. Smg is definitely fighting weapon. If you get attacked, just peel off enemy's health with pistol while running away and eating medapcks

When people, who play medic religiously in our server, will see Hacksaw Ridge - they'll faint . Medics should be supportive element, not the main firepower component in a team. 

[lost]

1 hour ago, Cyber said:

I don't know, jess... I'd even go as far as to give medics only luger/colt... You're supposed to heal, not fight. Smg is definitely fighting weapon. If you get attacked, just peel off enemy's health with pistol while running away and eating medapcks

Sorry cyber but this is the most funny comment i see in this thread so fops should only give ammo and place arts, cvops should only take clothes and allow friendly team to pass through enemy lines (doors etc), eng should only place dyna and the ONLY class which should only fight will be soldier 

Edited May 3, 2023 by lost

[Cyber]

Yeah basically, I just didn't want to write it out. Basically limit all classes in number of players except soldier. Once current heavy limits are reached, rest uses smg only as sold... No 20 medics in one team,thats unplayable 

[lost]

3 minutes ago, Cyber said:

Yeah basically, I just didn't want to write it out. Basically limit all classes in number of players except soldier. Once current heavy limits are reached, rest uses smg only as sold... No 20 medics in one team,thats unplayable 

For me it is ok, i can play soldier with smg, without any problem and I think we dont need 10 medics BUT in this case engs should be limited too especially with rifles and number of nades on engs AND im pretty sure limit solider to max 3 stars will balance game more 

[Nanaa]

Currently smg soldier can spawn with 30/180 ammo. It's a bug though because you have to pick a heavy weapon that is unavailable and then you spawn with smg with that extra ammo  (Also this might only work with class binds)

Edited May 4, 2023 by Nanaa

[Dragonkiss]

19 hours ago, lost said:

For me it is ok, i can play soldier with smg, without any problem and I think we dont need 10 medics BUT in this case engs should be limited too especially with rifles and number of nades on engs AND im pretty sure limit solider to max 3 stars will balance game more 

So limited nades for engy and unlimited medpacks for meds… yeah, no. 

[Sebast1an]

I find the suggestions in the opening post quite reasonable, however the discussion has drifted towards more drastic changes and we all know nothing of the kind will be implemented on such a successful server. Taking a few nades off or changing spawntimes maybe but bigger changes in classes seem unlikely to me. People prefer different things, as annoying as they may be, and that's their prerogative. Medics want to limit nades and heavy, engis want to limit medics... Quite logical, however the suggested changes depend on who you ask so there's really no way to please everyone.

 

[uips]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:13 PM, iNTER. said:

On the map Frostbite, make the spawntime for axis shorter

-1s for axis spawn would not hurt.

 

[iNTER.]

Also I would like to mention on SP_Delivery, Allies wins this map 90 percent of the time and the reason for that is quite simple. Allies spawntime is 12 seconds while axis spawntime is 20 seconds.

[uips]

4 hours ago, iNTER. said:

Also I would like to mention on SP_Delivery, Allies wins this map 90 percent of the time and the reason for that is quite simple. Allies spawntime is 12 seconds while axis spawntime is 20 seconds.

most smaller maps seem to have axis spawn time set on 16s

[uips]

I also noticed Venice has 16s spawn for Axis. 18s-22s range would be fine here. Most of the times hard map for allies

 

[iNTER.]

So, I see people do have some nice ideas and good input, do the server admins actually read this or do they get input from you guys?

[Matu]

@iNTER.We are trying improve spawntimes on suggested maps near days.

[Charlie]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:42 AM, Morton Salt said:

Sometimes u need to play all classes to see things diffrently. 

On 5/4/2023 at 5:34 PM, Sebast1an said:

Quite logical, however the suggested changes depend on who you ask so there's really no way to please everyone.

I play, or played, a mash up of medic to frag, solider to be lazy, or engi to do the obj or be a pain. I was never great at any but I feel like I was decent if I tried. I feel like all the classes are balanced on a server the size of ETL1 and on the Legacy mod, more or less, given we have all the skill levels maxed other than medic4. While I don't play right now I know settings haven't really changed. Nades is fine imo, as is a soldiers smg.

 

Maps, spawn times and all that jizz can be changed but there's a fine line to balance it all.

If we increase say Venice spawn times by 2-6 seconds for Axis like suggested, how would that effect them spawning at that first spawn and defending it? They would be crippled imo. if I play engi I sometimes I don't have time to build and plant mines as Axis before the tank is a the gate. It's the bank area that is a slog. How do I fix that? I don't know. Give Allies a tunnel to blow in to the bank as well, something that takes Axis away from sitting around the courtyard  Maps are most balanced when there isn't 1 or 2 attack points in an open space that bottleneck in to 1.

And, as suggested, Deli spawn times. Axis spawn too quick then there's no point, but spawn to slow then they can't defend either the flag or the button. Believe me we have tried most combinations of spawn times on the popular maps and settled on what works, the majority of the time. The majority of time being the key phrase here. You can cap the flag in the first spawn allies have and hold it but it could still be a long slog to both tap the button and hold the truck.

 

 

All is just my opinion of course and no reflection to what is what.

[iNTER.]

Maybe also thing to note is that I see quite some players joining only one side. Not sure if that is something to mention but it can be quite irritating if you want to balance teams. Definately after shuffles, they join back spectator or join there "favourite" side.

[Mani]

 

5 hours ago, iNTER. said:

Maybe also thing to note is that I see quite some players joining only one side. Not sure if that is something to mention but it can be quite irritating if you want to balance teams. Definately after shuffles, they join back spectator or join there "favourite" side.

Youll never be able to stop this and frankly, I dont see the point.
Yes there are players that only play axis or allies, or only ever play panz/flame/mortar and those that only ever play SMG.....leave em to it, its their choice.

The line is too grey to be drawn, especially with axis/allies, for instance, personally It depends what mood im in, or what team ive been playing on previous. i.e If I have played 4-5 maps as Axis, disconnect for a few hours, then come back, youll see me ONLY want to join allies, and I will be one of those team swappers, thats because you havent seen me play Axis for the other games and for me, I get bored.

[iNTER.]

3 hours ago, Mani said:

 

Youll never be able to stop this and frankly, I dont see the point.
Yes there are players that only play axis or allies, or only ever play panz/flame/mortar and those that only ever play SMG.....leave em to it, its their choice.

The line is too grey to be drawn, especially with axis/allies, for instance, personally It depends what mood im in, or what team ive been playing on previous. i.e If I have played 4-5 maps as Axis, disconnect for a few hours, then come back, youll see me ONLY want to join allies, and I will be one of those team swappers, thats because you havent seen me play Axis for the other games and for me, I get bored.

I guess you are right about that point.

[uips]

Data:

Spawn for attacking team is almost always 12s. Defending team usually in range of 16s-22s.

Convert original ratio:

Default is 20s attacking 30s defending. Apply that rule to 12s attack and u get 18s defending which seems to be good starting point.

Tweak options:

Attacking team spawn seems to be very stable around 12s. I would recommend only fiddle with defending team spawn if it is feeling unbalanced.

Rule of thumb:

• Attacking team: 12s 
• Defending team: 18s (balance options for defending team -2s, +2s, +4s)

Conclusion:

4 possible settings come out of this rule that cover most of the current map settings. This guideline should work for most maps.

• 12s/16s
• 12s/18s
• 12s/20s
• 12s/22s

Lower reinforcements times for defending team in smaller maps and higher in bigger maps seems to be a pattern as well. Possible due length that attacking team has to cover or it is easier to defend bigger open areas as team can scatter better.

Dynamic map bias:

When dynamic map bias is brought to game (https://github.com/etlegacy/etlegacy/issues/2317) it will be easier to decide which maps need adjustment and effect can be seen in real time.

Server Data:

Some notices:

• Frostbite: Mentioned in this post. Setting it to 16s on defense seems logical thing to do and it will share exactly same settings similar to other smaller maps.
• Oasis: 15s allies spawn is a mystery?. Make it 12s. Mostly hard map for allies and long distances to cover.
• Venice: 16s defending team seems out of pattern for bigger maps and it is usually hard map for allies. 18s is safe option or 20s if you brave enough.
• Goldrush: Can be made to 12s/20s just to get it on 12s attack too.
• Special delivery: 18s on defending team might be viable option as it is usually easier map for allies

Full server usually makes it easier for defending team.

Another thing to keep in mind is that setting that works in 20vs20 might not be ideal in 10vs10. Since main server is big server and in peak time most players experience it with lots of players so i also recommend taking the games happening with full/almost full server into account if deciding to make any change.

There is ETL 2 server that will never reach this high amount therefore it is also logical that some maps could use different adjustments there

Edited May 27, 2023 by uips

[Ctrz]

@uips good data. I think this tabel could also use some distance measurement from spawn to main objective or some key area of map that needs control. Like when you measure how long the distance from allied 2nd main spawn to objective is .. then we can see how damn long that is. Maybe it would be better to think about adding some spawnpoints bit closer but make them for limited amount of players only? Like 6-8 people spawnpoint. 

[knuX]

Was the spawns on Frostbite ever changed to make it more even? I've not seen it won by axis in a long time and more often than not is over within 4-5 minutes